WhO_KnOwS

The PSP has loads of games that fit your criteria. To list just a few: LocoRoco (levels last about 5min), Burnout Legends (most races can be completed under 5min, crash mode takes 20secs per challenge), Lumines (single skin mode - can last from 1min to several hours), Daxter (auto saving/sleep mode make it a good title to play in short bursts), Pursuit Force (missions last about 5-10 minutes each).
All of the games I mentioned also have short loading times so you can add 1min or even less for level loads.

While I agree that the DS is a better handheld system, the PSP is slowly morphing from a portable console into a handheld as well, due to the newer games which are tailored to the PSP.

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TheBlackCat

"Slowly" isn't going to cut it. While the PSP is "slowly" morphing, the DS is quickly increasing its lead. Eventually a given hardware race reaches a point of no return, a point where no matter what happens the end has been decided. The DS and PSP are approaching the 2 year mark. Considering the sales of the DS lite in the US and Japan, I suspect it is already too late for Sony to recover this generation even if they do something drastic. If they just keep going as they are, or changing very slowly as you suggest, then nothing will change, the DS will continue to dominate hardware and software sales and Sony will lose. The status quo is strongly in Nintendo's favor. Unless something changes, which Sony has given no indication it will, then the market will continue to strongly favor the DS, just as it has every previous Nintendo handheld.

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SFOSOK

Well clearly the PSP is favored. You cannot deny that most people on this tech site believe that the PSP is a better system.

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METAL!!

WhO_KnOwS

Take into account that we are the target users for the PSP, while the DS was aimed at the regular Joe.

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brutusmaximus

You know that is actually a good point and one im glad someone brought up. I consider the DS made for kids and for younger teenagers who like the rehashes of the mario games that nintendo seem to bring out for EVERY console release (and im sure we will see ANOTHER mario kart etc etc when the new system appears too ). The PSP is more versatile, has a larger clearer screen, better media playback, you can mod it, add larger batteries, massive cards and hard drives, even new joystick mods.

I really dont even see a comparison to be honest, I think someone mentioned earlier that the PSP was a "console" in a negative way, but this is its strength, its not a cutdown minature handheld with limited audio and video, its the real deal. its also widescreen, I dont think anyone in 2006 wants a square setup anymore, I hate 4:3. lets not forget the quality of the screen either. thats a big seller.

SFOSOK

by the regular joe u mean average child? How many games they have that are at least rated T?

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WhO_KnOwS

While I do love my PSP I quite frankly can't stand it when somebody says the DS is intended for kids. Just because it's gfx are cartooney doesn't make the games childish. Some of the best games ever made had graphics like that but were still intended for grownups (Discworld series, Monkey Island series...). Heck, take a look at World of Warcraft!!

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TheBlackCat

ESRB rating are a poor measure. They rate offensive content, not target audience. DS has 23 M or T games (14%), while the PSP has 76 (44%). That is about a 2/3 difference. However, the DS has 65 puzzle, party, and board games that appeal to wide audiences and are ideal for handhelds but usually have an E rating or below, making up roughly 40% of their games. The PSP has 48, making up approximately 28% of their games. If you exclude these games, the difference drops to about 1/2. The DS also has a large number of adventure and platformer games that are designed to appeal to a wide variety of audiences, which would similarly reduce the fraction of mature games while still being very appealing to adult gamers. The ESRB rating are a minimum limit, not a maximum limit, on age. The whole point of the DS is to appeal to as many people as possible. The system design and the game design has been set up for this. And it has worked extremely well.

I didn't mention it in a negative way, I mentioned as the reason why the DS is absolutely trouncing the PSP in terms of both hardware and software sales. The fact is the best technology in the world is meaningless if your hardware and software sales are much lower than your competition and that drives away developers, or leads them to only release ports of old console games (or worse yet, port your best games to other systems as is happening on the PSP). The fact is that consoles and handhelds are inherrently different, and portable consoles simply do not sell well.

Nintendo releases them because they sell. They sell well. In fact, they sell extremely well and they sell systems. If the PSP had a games that are nearly platinum (1 million sold) in 2 months in the US alone, in the middle of the summer no less, like the DS, do you really think they would avoid making them? These are businesses, they are in the business to make money. Nintendo has sure-fire sellers, and so they release them. On the other hand, they also release completely new and highly innovate games as well, and these have also sold extremely well (Nintendogs is still selling 100,000 units a month in the US, 10 months after it's release. Few PSP titles have sold that many in their launch month, and I challenge you to find any that are selling that well 10 months later. You complain about Mario, but seem to have no problem with the ever-present GTA and Metal Gear games on the PS (neither of which has sold anywhere near as well as a number of Nintendo's new franchises like Nintendogs and Brain Age).

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brutusmaximus

I certainly wasnt arguing sales. but is this thread about sales? I think not. It is asking the members of this community which they feel is the better all around console, there is nothing in the initial post to indicate this should be related or in some way based on sales. Did you ever actually think that some of the games like GTA on the PS2 did so well that is the reason they were "ported" (loosely, its all new missions), people would want a game of GTA on the bus/train/plane? You could also ascertain that your comments above in some way are also reflective of games like mario kart being "ported" to the new consoles. Yes they are ports, they are basically the same game with updated graphics to take advantage of current hardware trends. I honestly find your bias hard to take seriously, so let me ask a question, do you actually work for nintendo?


Well that was my point above, GTA. I think thats one of the biggest sellers ever, and sells consoles on its own merit. But as I also said, has this anything to do with the merits of a console for enjoyment or consumer use? this isnt a financial thread, its an end user "which console do you enjoy more" kind of deal, Right?

Indeed they are, but the 13 year old kid on the street, should he feel fine with having the 14th version of mario kart because some japanese businessman in his office wants a few more million in his back pocket. what about the famous nintendo originality and pioneering game play. lets all agree that every "re-release" of those same titles actually plays LESS well while having updated graphics.

Whats original about nintendogs? and what about loco roco on the PSP, that is one of the most addictive and fun games ever, which in the past would already have been released on the nintendo system if they werent ONLY interested in making bank from kids.

YAYitsAndrew

I believe there is a device that we are discussing in this very thread that is the first system to have two screens. The first handheld system to have a touch screen. The first system to utilize a microphone for gameplay. Built right in. That's where the famous nintendo originality is.

I think it's a cheap shot to call a NEW game in the mario kart series a re-release. The game changes as much as any new final fantasy does and they're almost on final fantasy 12. But those games are on sony's systems, so I'd imagine you would never talk ill of them. Mario Kart DS was the best in the series (after I almost vomitted playing double dash). A new super mario bros game was released on the DS. You may have noticed it because it's selling ds lites and itself to the #1 spot on every chart.

Speaking of rehashes and rereleases, are you enjoying gta, mega man, burnout, and the rest of the fleet of ported ps2 games on the psp?

Kind of hard to take you seriously. Every system has re-releases because they make money just like you said, and every company wants to make money.

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brutusmaximus

Arent you the guy who posted about 5 threads on his new nintendo system So yes of course you are going to claim its wonderful. The funny thing is I actually own one of them and I quite like it, but after using the PSP I was disappointed primarily because most of the major titles nintendo release are the same thing like mario kart. and no you cant compare a "rehash" of mario kart to a new version of final fantasy. mario kart is the exact same thing each time with a few more polygons on marios nose. final fantasy games are a little bit more indepth than 10 cartoon characters racing around a track throwing bananas at each other.

I will agree on the dual screen concept being original, but lets get real man, how often has it been used well? most of the games use it poorly or not at all and the screen quality is average at best, somewhat fixed with the new version, but thats the version that should have been released initially.

I feel the nintendo is for younger kids/adults and girls who like the safety of the cartoonish games while the PSP is for the older guys who like the more adult style games. Unless of course nintendo bring out Grand Theft Auto: Mario unleashed, with mario running around torching civilians, and running over grannies in a suped up convertible.

Not likely to happen, we will get him jumping about on more platforms with his ugly dumb brother tagging along and him and trying to beat bowser for the 1000th time by jumping on his head..... its old and stale.

Edit: yes I am enjoying burnout and the others, safe in the knowledge the nintendo has neither the screen nor the processing power to handle it (even if the bosses there finally had the balls to release them). more violence, less niceness and flowers !

YAYitsAndrew

Sorry, a desire to burn destroy and pillage does not equate to "mature" in my book.

I really can't get behind your mario kart analogy. It's not like any of the need for speeds are brand new games. You like them, don't you? All final fantasy changes is the leveling system, the monsters, and the story. The spells stay the same (like mario kart's items) chocobos are as prolific as yoshi, and the online version is miserable (like mario kart ds). I understand that the genres are completely different; one aims to tell a story and the other is just a racing game. It is important to realize that more than the name carries over from game to game. This is true of any franchise regardless of what system it's on.

I can't take you seriously when I can just replace all your references to nintendo games with any other series and make the same argument.

I mean seriously, how many more games am I going to have to fight cactuars in? Boy that gets old after the tenth time.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
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In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

TheBlackCat

There is nothing in the post that says they shouldn't, either. We were asked which ones we "rated higher", that neither requires nor probits using sales data. Sales are important for two reasons. First, sales is, quite simply, the only objective, emperical measure of the system we have. Any other measure you can come up with is subjective. Measures like the number or type of games available depends on whether you like those games. Things like hardware, media capabilities, and price depend on how you subjectively weight various aspects of the system. Only sales are both emperical and completely objective.

Second, sales are important to the number and quality of games released. If a system sells poorly and its software sells poorly, while a directly competing system sells excellently and its software sells excellently, then this will drive many developers away from the poorer system, either totally or at least leading them to restrict the money they are willing to invest in games for that system. Game developers are in business to make money. If they think they can make more money on another system they will move to that system. It is as simple as that. The N64 and the Gamecube both suffered that problem (although the gamecube much less than the N64). Nintendo has the advantage of being a first-party development studio, meaning that they could keep the system alive based on only their own intellectual properties. Sony does not have that luxury, all of its biggest franchises are owned by other companies that could easily jump ship if they wish. For instance, look at Square. Square is considered to be one of Sony's big-name developers. However, come November of this year there will be 2 Final Fantasy games on the DS and none on the PSP. In fact, as near as I can tell there isn't even a Final Fantasy game announced for the PSP. One of the Final Fantasy games is entirely new, and the other is both a complete 3D remake of an originally 2D game and entirely new to the North America and Europe (being the first time the game has been released outside of Japan).

I never said GTA was ported from the PS2. Quite the opposite, I said GTA was ported TO the PS2. It was released on the PSP and then later the decision was made to port it to the PS2 where it is selling much better. This was exactly my point to begin with sales, do you really think they would have done this if they were happy with the PSP sales? They are putting the two versions of the game in direct competition.


Of course, because a bunch of entirely new tracks, a new objective-based "mission mode" never before seen in the series, complete revamps of existing modes, new racing mechanics, new items, and the first online multiplayer in the series is somehow a "port". I fail to see your logic here.


Wow, the irony here is overwhelming. The fact that I don't own either system and have absolutely no interest in either system should probably lead you to question whether I am as biased as you would like to think I am.

Ah yes. When the argument is not going your way, resort to insults and personal attacks. Very mature argument strategy there. To answer your question: no, I do not work for Nintendo, I am not affiliated with Nintendo in any way, I do not own any stock in Nintendo, I do not know anyone who works for Nintendo or is affiliated with Nintendo. Nintendo's success has no impact whatsoever on me or anyone I know. I also do not own a DS, a PSP, and never will. I have no interest in either system, nor in portable gaming period.

This is a "which do you rate higher" kind of deal. The method by which we are to rate them is not specified. I picked the only objective measure available. I do no own either system and have no intention of buying either, so my own experience with the systems is not a useful basis for comparison. That had already been extensively discussed, and since it is ultimately a subjective issue in that regard anyway I decided to look at the issue from a different, more objective angle. There is nothing in the OP prohibiting that sort of discussion and as I stated above it is very important to the long-term enjoyment of the system (although not the only issue) because it largely determines what sort and what quality of games will be available.

If the game is fun to play, who cares how many other games there have been in the series? And it is noth the "14th" version of mario kart. This is the 5th Mario Kart, really not that many relative to many games series.

There are currently Nintendo 5 games on the DS that are released for pretty much every Nintendo system: Pokemon, Mario Kart, Kirby, Tetris, and a 3D mario game. Metroid has had 4 other games in recent years, but that was after a 9 year hiatous. That is it. The rest are either entirely new (which there are a large number of), new series within the last few years, or hadn't had any new games in the series in an extremely long time. Many, if not most, of the Nintendo games outside of these few series make extensive or even exclusive use of the touch screen, as do a great many other games.

Why? Sometimes that is the case, sometimes it isn't. It doesn't mean having a new game in a series is bad if it is a series people enjoy playing. If people don't like the game, they won't buy it and it won't get made. It is as simple as that. I can't blame Nintendo for giving people what they want.

Besides raising and trainging a dog on a touch screen and using voice commands on a portable system and meeting and interacting with other nintendogs owners and their dogs? Uh, nothing I guess.

What evidence do you have that the DS is only being targetted towards kids, besides your own imagination that is?

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YAYitsAndrew

I think I'm in love with TheBlackCat.

Can't really add much to the argument, except that nintendo's marketing strategy for the nintendo ds is decidedly not targeted towards kids. You can listen to nintendo say it themselves in their e3 conferences. You can look at the ads they run. There is the "Touching is good" campaign which is a completely euphamistic phrase. They run ads in magazines ranging from nintendo power to fhm. The ds is for everyone from your little brother to your grandmother.

It's fine that you like the PSP better. But if you're going to keep playing the "nintendo is kiddy" broken record from the 1990's, then expect to find someone trying to turn your volume down.

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zidanische

×åì èñòîðèÿ ñ Çèäàíîì çàêîí÷èëàñü? ×òî-òî ÿ ïðîïóñòèë...____________________

brutusmaximus

well my last post was meant totally as a joke as I think a few people in this thread **cough** are taking this debate way too seriously to be perfectly honest. I think its the age old internet adage of people buying something and needing to justify their purchase by going totally overboard on protecting the product and defending it to others. If a product really is that good that it justifies its own existance by being top drawer I dont think it needs fanboyish type defending.

its been amusing though I will say, I mean who could argue with the black cat and yayitsandrew? I have a voucher for a hotel room going to both you guys in the mail

YAYitsAndrew

No one, we're perfect. I hope the hotel's in the bahamas.

We were just saying that the DS is justifying its own existence by selling better worldwide than the PSP is. It's worth pointing out that since this website is comprised mostly of the PSP's target demographic, the poll's results differ from the worldwide results. Nothing wrong with that.

But good god there's something wrong with this

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

brutusmaximus

Yes I know what you guys were saying, however originally I was trying to state under all the ranting and raving back and forward that I dont necessarily feel that popularity or sales figures really denote "quality". I mean the backstreet boys probably sold more records than mozart and then we have the VHS and betamax scenario (throughout history its common knowledge an inferior product has sold more units)............ I do agree though I feel the results on this site better reflect an enthusiasts viewpoint of the quality and diversity of each portable rather than basing something on units sold worldwide and financial success alone.

anyway I think im about done here, I never knew nintendo had such a devout and intense following, thats for sure !

YAYitsAndrew

The worst among us speak in tongues
I don't understand it quite as well as others, but I think he said some vulgar things involving a PSP and your mother.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

Zardon

I actually think it was russian for "ah come guys, for goodness sake get a life". or words to that effect.

YAYitsAndrew

lol

If it was russian I must not have the fonts installed it's all this schwa elipsis accent stuff. Just looks like gibberish. So not meant to deliver offense to those with the russian font installed and could clearly tell it was russian.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com