Are you excited about Direct X 10?

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 06:56 PM

not sure if i'm a fanboy..... not for ati though..... but i prefer thier mostly fully fuctional vista driver over the vista fiasco that nvidia is having atm.

And considering that dx10 won't take off until the game and benchmarks and demos make thier rounds, it's not really a thing to be concerned about directly related to whom has out a dx10 compliant card atm. R600 is on it's wait, although i wish it would launch a hell of alot earlier then what is expected.

IMO, Vista + R600 + dx 10 seems to be the soonest DX10 experience vs what the nvidia counter part. But hey we'll see what happens.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 6, 2007, 07:01 PM

I'm not quite understanding the way OpenGL is working.

If I understand correctly, Vista by itself can run OpenGL games, but only from within a DirectX 10 wrapper and no direct access to the hardware. Is that what others understand to be the situation also?

So, in order to get any sort of decent OpenGL performance, ATI and Nvidia have both had to create their own entire OpenGL implementation that has direct access to the hardware and does not use any of the built-in API's or other built-in helpers, correct?

If that is indeed the case, I would imagine it will take months for both of them to get their OpenGL implementations ramped up and hopefully more efficient and consistently stable.

I am looking forward to seeing some full-blown, detailed articles on both of their OpenGL implementations. I find the whole thing interesting.

Dyre Straits · Feb 6, 2007, 07:04 PM

I just finally got a really good DX9 card.

Might be a while before I see the benefits of DX10.

Brutality · Feb 6, 2007, 07:08 PM

I'd have to rob a bank to get enough cash upgrading my PC to decent level for DX10. Thats just not possible. But i'm moving towards DX10 and Vista.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 6, 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyre Straits

I just finally got a really good DX9 card.

Might be a while before I see the benefits of DX10.

You have a good rig - I would imagine your golden for another year or two if you want to be. Hardly any games coming out soon that you won't be able to run, I reckon'.

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 07:21 PM

opengl in vista with the catalyst 7.1s isn't all that bad, performance isn't anything really comparible to xp, but the performance is good enough to play through the games that are available so far.

Hell even @ 2560x1600, things are quite playable and looks great to. Just don't plan on playing anything that was designed for D3D or other API's in there usually 2ndary opengl option mode (like serious sam 2, that's a big no no for me anyways)

I can however make a note that crossfire + opengl = not a good idea atm, seems to introduce some glaring issues. But i'm quite content with the final Vista ATI 7.1 drivers... i'm rather impressed considering how RC2 release was totally, imo, screwed up.

SFOSOK · Feb 6, 2007, 07:22 PM

I'ma go buy a gamecube and Tv soon.

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 07:26 PM

not a wii?

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 6, 2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

opengl in vista with the catalyst 7.1s isn't all that bad, performance isn't anything really comparible to xp, but the performance is good enough to play through the games that are available so far.

Hell even @ 2560x1600, things are quite playable and looks great to. Just don't plan on playing anything that was designed for D3D or other API's in there usually 2ndary opengl option mode (like serious sam 2, that's a big no no for me anyways)

I can however make a note that crossfire + opengl = not a good idea atm, seems to introduce some glaring issues. But i'm quite content with the final Vista ATI 7.1 drivers... i'm rather impressed considering how RC2 release was totally, imo, screwed up.

Woah! You have a 30" LCD that runs 2560x1600? Nice...

I'm content to sort of observe others as they wade the Vista waters. Once the ripples settle down, it'll be fun to watch the competition between Nvidia and ATI.

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 10:32 PM

Wanna see a screenshot of a opengl game in action?

tell me which game, make sure it's a downloadable demo.... and i'll test it out in crossfire mode and without crossfire mode and give you some performance figures

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 6, 2007, 10:39 PM

So did you get the Dell 30" or another brand?

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 10:56 PM

yes it's a Dell 3007FPW(WFP) 2560x1600 D-DVI A02

the other brand is either Apple or i beleive it's Viewsonic or HP or something? (can't remeber the other brand)

reguardless, i'm highly impressed with the dell's

Judas · Feb 6, 2007, 10:57 PM

btw.. you have any specific opengl app you'd like to know works or not? I'm willing to try anything here

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 6, 2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

btw.. you have any specific opengl app you'd like to know works or not? I'm willing to try anything here

Quake 4 and Doom 3 would be good starts.

Judas · Feb 7, 2007, 12:02 AM

I must note,

these are taken in crossfire mode (without crossfire the performance improves a bit, so obviously some work needs to be done with opengl and crossfire)

But i must stress that Fraps + opengl in vista doesn't always seem to work smoothly, as i've actually seen massive corruption with fraps screenshots occasionally. The problem appears to be that fraps actually seems to freeze up doom 3 occasionally while taking the screenshot so the performance drops a pile for no apparent reason.. (the last shot will be an example where the FPS drops so much for no reason as really in that shot, there isn't all that much)...

I can say that FPS never really appears to drop any lower then 30fps (seems to sit around there give or take) while most of the time it's around 60fps. Course this isn't steller results, i've seen as much as 100fps at times. I think for a first release though, so soon after vista official launch and whatnot.

Anyways... heres are 4 shots, ALL 2560x1600 PLUS a lower FPS due to adjusting the FOV to fit the Aspect of the screen from default 90 (usually) to 110 (that extra 20 degrees makes a big difference

)

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/2...6481265fz6.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9...6493920qi5.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6...6505527vg6.jpg
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/3...6513517yo6.jpg

oh and one last thing..... maxed out CCC sliders options (AA disabled mind you)
and Ultra quality mode within the Doom 3 DEMO (It's the DEMO, REMEMBER THAT

)

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 7, 2007, 12:04 AM

Dang - that is very, very nice...

Congrats on the big screen. Must be amazing to have one.

Judas · Feb 7, 2007, 12:09 AM

i admit, it's damn nice, but really, it's completely unnessary....

Lelisevis · Feb 7, 2007, 12:23 AM

Judas buddy see if you can get hold of a Logitech G15 keyboard, it shows your FPS on the LCD display. It's a cool feature. I was getting artifacts and tears using Fraps on screen.

Judas · Feb 7, 2007, 12:26 AM

I had a G15 for a short while.. i rather hated the keyboard layout, i liked the options, layout sucked, and because it's a rigid keyboard (straight) i can't use it more then 5 minutes before my hands go completely numb and get sore from the issues i have with my wrists and arms. I have to stick with curved erganomic keyboards, at least i don't get nearly as sore with them.

The FPS displayed using the ingame FPS display works, it's just that when taking screenshots, it drops down a significant amount, takes the shot, then climbs up again. I don't have this issue with XP from what i've experirienced.. so i'm going to say that it's most likely due to a combination of Fraps + OpenGL being still quirky + vista = slightly erratic under those circumstances.

Lelisevis · Feb 7, 2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

The FPS displayed using the ingame FPS display works, it's just that when taking screenshots, it drops down a significant amount, takes the shot, then climbs up again. I don't have this issue with XP from what i've experirienced.. [COLOR=Red]so i'm going to say that it's most likely due to a combination of Fraps + OpenGL being still quirky + vista = slightly erratic under those circumstances.[/COLOR]

LOL you can't resist the chance to have a dig can you. I was talking about on XP

.

Judas · Feb 7, 2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

LOL you can't resist the chance to have a dig can you.

i'm not sure what you mean?

what about XP? i said it worked fine there mostly for me.... at least from what i used of it thus far...

i've only the demo... which could also be a culprit....

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 7, 2007, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

i admit, it's damn nice, but really, it's completely unnessary....

Why, that's half the fun of computing in general - unjustifiable upgrades!

w00t!

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 7, 2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lelisevis

Judas buddy see if you can get hold of a Logitech G15 keyboard, it shows your FPS on the LCD display. It's a cool feature. I was getting artifacts and tears using Fraps on screen.

I think ATI Tray Tools shows the FPS in the upper right corner all the time by default.

BWX · Feb 7, 2007, 08:52 AM

No, not at all, im not upgrading to Vista

Well, I will EVENTUALLY... but not for a quite a while I imagine, so that's the closest answer.

I could probably get a new system now- that would play any new DX10 game that comes out, but it would be pointless to upgrade to Vista with the state of games and drivers for the new OS. I am not impressed with Vista overall anyway, to me it is not much more than an M$ sponsored Hollywood DRM machine that limits my rights. I just don't see what the big advantage to Vista is.

Dyre Straits · Feb 7, 2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeBoyz

I think ATI Tray Tools shows the FPS in the upper right corner all the time by default.

No, it doesn't do it all the time by default. But, you can set it up to do so. In fact, it's possible to set it up to show temps, free memory, fan use, etc all the time or at set intervals. Very dandy!

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 7, 2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyre Straits

No, it doesn't do it all the time by default. But, you can set it up to do so. In fact, it's possible to set it up to show temps, free memory, fan use, etc all the time or at set intervals. Very dandy!

Funny. It seems to on my XP setup, and I can't figure out how to turn it off! lol...

I sure do miss RadLinker.

CoolZone · Feb 7, 2007, 11:34 AM

i'm planning to buy a dx10 card but i will first wait for ati r600.that's the only moment when the prices will come down a little.

**temeteus82** · Feb 7, 2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeBoyz

Funny. It seems to on my XP setup, and I can't figure out how to turn it off! lol...

I sure do miss RadLinker.

from ATT tray menu Tools&Options / OnScreen Display.... there you can disable it.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 7, 2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temeteus82

from ATT tray menu Tools&Options / OnScreen Display.... there you can disable it.

Thank you very much. I don't know how I missed it. Maybe my right-mouse click menus just keep disappearing too fast or something.

I do wish it didn't try to do so much stuff. Or that they had a "lite" version that only handled clocks, AA and AF settings on a per game basis, leaving all the other stuff out.

But it seems to work much better than FRAPS does - doesn't crash all the time like Fraps seems to do on my system in some games.

Anyway, I appreciate the helpful response.

BTW, what is that "Save Desktop Icon Positions" thing all about? Is that just using a built-in Windows function or does it do it on its own differently?

Thanks

IvanV · Feb 7, 2007, 12:03 PM

Upgrading to a new video card would require me to get a completely new system, and that's a little too expensive for me right now, especially since gaming would be the only reason to do it.

Feb 6, 2007, 07:22 PM	#37
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 89 System Specs	I'ma go buy a gamecube and Tv soon. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Feb 7, 2007, 08:52 AM	#54
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,665 Rep Power: 109 System Specs	No, not at all, im not upgrading to Vista Well, I will EVENTUALLY... but not for a quite a while I imagine, so that's the closest answer. I could probably get a new system now- that would play any new DX10 game that comes out, but it would be pointless to upgrade to Vista with the state of games and drivers for the new OS. I am not impressed with Vista overall anyway, to me it is not much more than an M$ sponsored Hollywood DRM machine that limits my rights. I just don't see what the big advantage to Vista is. __________________

Feb 7, 2007, 12:03 PM	#60
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,653 Rep Power: 280 System Specs	Upgrading to a new video card would require me to get a completely new system, and that's a little too expensive for me right now, especially since gaming would be the only reason to do it. __________________ Our Folding@home stats:

Feb 6, 2007, 07:01 PM	#32
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	I'm not quite understanding the way OpenGL is working. If I understand correctly, Vista by itself can run OpenGL games, but only from within a DirectX 10 wrapper and no direct access to the hardware. Is that what others understand to be the situation also? So, in order to get any sort of decent OpenGL performance, ATI and Nvidia have both had to create their own entire OpenGL implementation that has direct access to the hardware and does not use any of the built-in API's or other built-in helpers, correct? If that is indeed the case, I would imagine it will take months for both of them to get their OpenGL implementations ramped up and hopefully more efficient and consistently stable. I am looking forward to seeing some full-blown, detailed articles on both of their OpenGL implementations. I find the whole thing interesting.

Feb 6, 2007, 07:08 PM	#34
Brutality DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 887 Rep Power: 39	I'd have to rob a bank to get enough cash upgrading my PC to decent level for DX10. Thats just not possible. But i'm moving towards DX10 and Vista.

Feb 6, 2007, 10:39 PM	#41
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	So did you get the Dell 30" or another brand?

Feb 7, 2007, 12:04 AM	#46
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	Dang - that is very, very nice... Congrats on the big screen. Must be amazing to have one.

Feb 7, 2007, 12:23 AM	#48
Lelisevis Howlin at the moon Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,663 Rep Power: 0	Judas buddy see if you can get hold of a Logitech G15 keyboard, it shows your FPS on the LCD display. It's a cool feature. I was getting artifacts and tears using Fraps on screen.

Feb 7, 2007, 11:34 AM	#57
CoolZone HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 602 Rep Power: 56 System Specs	i'm planning to buy a dx10 card but i will first wait for ati r600.that's the only moment when the prices will come down a little.