I would like ATI to make an AGP based X700 series card

edperks · Oct 2, 2004, 07:47 PM

I think ATI should release an AGP version of the X700 as this is a medium range card and alot of people who buy medium range products are usually on a budget and they will not have a motherboard that will support the new PCI express or have room in there budget for the new MB. Just my 2 cents.

Dom · Oct 2, 2004, 10:27 PM

What a tremendous output so far.

Bart1987 · Oct 2, 2004, 10:54 PM

I would (probably) buy one to replace my 9700NP, if there was an AGP x700pro/xt. I would rather have one of those instead of a 9800pro/xt. But ofcourse it would depend on the price of things. If they were priced the same as the pci-e version, or close to that, I would buy one.

davidnsibs · Oct 3, 2004, 04:17 PM

Not sure about in the US but the two sites I use in the UK (overclockers.co.uk and ebuyer.co.uk) dont have any 9800xt's listed so im guessing theres not going to be anymore available. you can buy 9800pros but i can almost match 9800pro scores in 3dmark05 with my 9500pro overclocked. i bought my 9500pro 1 and a half years ago and can play all the games out there nicely (farcry i guess is the most hardware intensive that i own) because it had the best features available, but at a much lower price point than the top of the range 9700pro. if (when!) i upgrade, i want the same. all the latest features, but at a price i can afford. obviously a new graphics card will help my play half life 2 much better than a new cpu/motherboard and i cant afford both at the same time. x800pros aint exactly cheap. so.... sorry for the long post... hopefully the x700 would be the card for me (in agp flavour).

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnsibs

Not sure about in the US but the two sites I use in the UK (overclockers.co.uk and ebuyer.co.uk) dont have any 9800xt's listed so im guessing theres not going to be anymore available. you can buy 9800pros but i can almost match 9800pro scores in 3dmark05 with my 9500pro overclocked. i bought my 9500pro 1 and a half years ago and can play all the games out there nicely (farcry i guess is the most hardware intensive that i own) because it had the best features available, but at a much lower price point than the top of the range 9700pro. if (when!) i upgrade, i want the same. all the latest features, but at a price i can afford. obviously a new graphics card will help my play half life 2 much better than a new cpu/motherboard and i cant afford both at the same time. x800pros aint exactly cheap. so.... sorry for the long post... hopefully the x700 would be the card for me (in agp flavour).

A fellow 9500 Pro lover.

My 9500 Pro is one of the best pieces of hardware I've owned and I love it to death; however I see an upgrade on the horizon and the X700 would be ideal for me in AGP. If ATi decides to move forward with that card then that's what I'll be getting.

Shadow Lady · Oct 3, 2004, 04:28 PM

besides, right now, at least here in colombia is difficult to see a pci-e mobo for lower than 200 dolars =-I

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Lady

besides, right now, at least here in colombia is difficult to see a pci-e mobo for lower than 200 dolars =-I

Off topic: You're Colombian? From which part? My father is from Cali, he's actually coming back from Colombia today.

Geminiwave · Oct 3, 2004, 05:46 PM

I've been hearing alot of things about PCIe giving "NO MAJOR PERFORMANCE INCREASE" and I had something interesting on my mind...

according to Zardon's benchmarks on a whole mess of radeon cards...the X800XT PE AGP is FASTER in EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK than the PCIe version. I've seen this true for nVidia cards too in several benchmarks. Its not a BIG difference, but its a noticable one when you look at the numbers. Funny thing is: The ATI cards have native PCIe boards so in theory, the AGP versions should be slower when having to go through that bridge chip. Fact is that they just arent for some reason.

can anyone explain this?

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 06:05 PM

Of course there will be a performance increase because there is more bandwidth in PCI-e. Right now nothing really uses that bandwidth so there isn't a dramatic performance increase, but later on down the road once more intensive titles start coming out that use the additional memory bandwidth then we'll see the difference.

Right now if you have a decent to fast AGP based system there is nothing to justify the hundreds of dollars required to get 5 more FPS.

Zardon · Oct 3, 2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminiwave

I've been hearing alot of things about PCIe giving "NO MAJOR PERFORMANCE INCREASE" and I had something interesting on my mind...

according to Zardon's benchmarks on a whole mess of radeon cards...the X800XT PE AGP is FASTER in EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK than the PCIe version. I've seen this true for nVidia cards too in several benchmarks. Its not a BIG difference, but its a noticable one when you look at the numbers. Funny thing is: The ATI cards have native PCIe boards so in theory, the AGP versions should be slower when having to go through that bridge chip. Fact is that they just arent for some reason.

can anyone explain this?

bear in mind they dont actually make a PCIe XT PE (520/560), only the vanilla XT (500/500). In my tests I benchmarked the PCIe XT standard and overclocked to the same speeds as PE AGP. There are many variables to take into consideration from those benchmarks, one being that although the PCIe rig used in those tests uses the higher frequency DDR2 the latencies are also much higher than the equivalent DDR I used in the AGP which would account for the slightly higher (AGP) scores, getting an identical testbed across platforms was hard.

I would say right now that ATI PCIe isnt "slower" than AGP, just the fact that the AGP systems used to compare have slightly tighter performance overall, after all PCIE is still a platform in its growing stages.

Razgriz · Oct 3, 2004, 06:28 PM

I agree with a lot of the guys here in thinking that ATI should release a x700 AGP card. I think the community would have a HUGE response to this, because the newer games coming out are going to be stressed, because the textures,models,etc. are so demanding

kelticknight · Oct 3, 2004, 07:24 PM

for me at this is clear for me,l have upgraded my case,m-board,cpua nd ram this year.lm happy with it.have no intenion to get pci-e for a couple of years.theirs no reason for me to spend 800 euros or more to rebuild my rig to get pci-e .its new and in growing stages.l work in europes main dell manfacturing plant here in ireland and sell only some of dell's rig going pci-e,mostly gaming rigs.engineers want see how it goes.for me the only item l will change soon is g-card at xmass ati x800xt pe and thats all for a while.will be best part of year before you see games and programs benfit more from pci-e
cheers

BWX · Oct 3, 2004, 09:52 PM

[COLOR=Red]Voters: 4163. [/COLOR] You have already voted on this poll

Wow- that's a lot of voters,

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 11:09 PM

Almost 80% of the DriverHeaven forum members think ATi should bring the X700 to the AGP market... that's saying something.

Blazer · Oct 3, 2004, 11:24 PM

Like the others said, I think that it would be a good idea for ATI to make an agp model available as well, because my curent board/cpu/ram combo doesn't justify upgrading just yet to pci-e, and I am sure allot of other people are in the same boat.

Shadow Lady · Oct 4, 2004, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinjikun

Off topic: You're Colombian? From which part? My father is from Cali, he's actually coming back from Colombia today.

more offtopic even: im from bogotá, say hi to your that from my part lol

ontopic again: 3570 votes so far ouyt of the 4562 on total saying yes, please bring us your faithful and loyal users the so wanted x700 agp cards

i hope they take us in count =D

Shinjikun · Oct 4, 2004, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Lady

more offtopic even: im from bogotá, say hi to your that from my part lol

Off topic x3: Bogotá eh? Very cool. I think I have some family there as well.

On topic: So yea, ATi should bring an X700 AGP card to the market.

Geminiwave · Oct 4, 2004, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

bear in mind they dont actually make a PCIe XT PE (520/560), only the vanilla XT (500/500). In my tests I benchmarked the PCIe XT standard and overclocked to the same speeds as PE AGP. There are many variables to take into consideration from those benchmarks, one being that although the PCIe rig used in those tests uses the higher frequency DDR2 the latencies are also much higher than the equivalent DDR I used in the AGP which would account for the slightly higher (AGP) scores, getting an identical testbed across platforms was hard.

I would say right now that ATI PCIe isnt "slower" than AGP, just the fact that the AGP systems used to compare have slightly tighter performance overall, after all PCIE is still a platform in its growing stages.

Oh okay. Iwas just assuming that because PCIe was in its infancy, the drivers hadnt gotten up to the AGP's quality yet and thats why it was slower.

Shadow Lady · Oct 4, 2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinjikun

Off topic x3: Bogotá eh? Very cool. I think I have some family there as well.

On topic: So yea, ATi should bring an X700 AGP card to the market.

off topic for the 4th time: great, i may know them, destiny works in misterious ways ;p

ontopic once again: please please ATI, we beg you: AGP x700 CARDS !!! =D

RStrada · Oct 4, 2004, 08:57 AM

Please GOD illuminate this people to create this video card in AGP

Shadow Lady · Oct 4, 2004, 02:40 PM

they are iluminated, just not inspired enought

kelticknight · Oct 4, 2004, 04:33 PM

l agree with all who think ati should release agp card x700,spec's are good and so is price.not everyone can afford top end ati cards

Shinjikun · Oct 4, 2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Lady

off topic for the 4th time: great, i may know them, destiny works in misterious ways ;p

ontopic once again: please please ATI, we beg you: AGP x700 CARDS !!! =D

Off topic Episode V: For all we know you might be a relative...

Yes destiny does work in mysterious ways.

On topic yet again: Yes ATi you rock! Give us the X700 AGP.

Zardon · Oct 4, 2004, 06:20 PM

All I can say is ATI are aware of this poll and have taken notes

Shinjikun · Oct 4, 2004, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

All I can say is ATI are aware of this poll and have taken notes

Wonderful; with ATi being a company that actually LISTENS to their userbase hopefully something good will come of this.

swimtech · Oct 4, 2004, 07:11 PM

What's the difference in the market? I would guess that the X700 is made to be sold by OEM's like Dell for their PCIe gaming rigs - it is a great fit for introducing PCIe via sales of new computers based upon the new architecture to the masses and give them a great gaming experience for not too much money.

However, those individuals and small shops that build new PCIe computers for themselves or their clients (for max performance where cost is not the most important consideration) are more likely to include the X800 PCIe card because of the appeal of having the "latest and greatest", "biggest and baddest" - and those units would be! Fantastic gaming rigs those will be... I'm thinking that the PCIe version of the X700 will be passed over and not used by that market.

An AGP version of the X700 would be of great appeal to a great majority of intelligent, modest means based individuals. It could be the card of choice for upgraders who, at the time, bought 9500 pros or 9700's and want to keep all the rest of their components intact. It would also appeal to those who are building systems today and know that - for probably a year or so - PCIe won't increase performance, games for the next year or two will play great on an AGP based system, and (of great importance) want the most cost-effective system they can get.

An X700 AGP card could give individuals an option for relatively low cost with very good gaming capability while PCIe settles in...

Shadow Lady · Oct 4, 2004, 11:18 PM

mmm... with the upcoming ati bridge, this wouldnt be an issue anymore, i wonder how cheap wilkl that bridge be

nuG · Oct 4, 2004, 11:38 PM

actually now that i think about it they should. I voted i dont care but now i see that a x700xt would make a nice new edition to my pc

apoch003 · Oct 5, 2004, 05:25 AM

Why should we care about ATi's business decisions?

Dom · Oct 5, 2004, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apoch003

Why should we care about ATi's business decisions?

Because their business affects us: the consumer.

Oct 3, 2004, 04:17 PM	#34
davidnsibs 9500pro Forever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bath, UK Posts: 273 Rep Power: 0	Not sure about in the US but the two sites I use in the UK (overclockers.co.uk and ebuyer.co.uk) dont have any 9800xt's listed so im guessing theres not going to be anymore available. you can buy 9800pros but i can almost match 9800pro scores in 3dmark05 with my 9500pro overclocked. i bought my 9500pro 1 and a half years ago and can play all the games out there nicely (farcry i guess is the most hardware intensive that i own) because it had the best features available, but at a much lower price point than the top of the range 9700pro. if (when!) i upgrade, i want the same. all the latest features, but at a price i can afford. obviously a new graphics card will help my play half life 2 much better than a new cpu/motherboard and i cant afford both at the same time. x800pros aint exactly cheap. so.... sorry for the long post... hopefully the x700 would be the card for me (in agp flavour). __________________ Goodbye 9500pro, you've been a faithful servant through Half life, Deus Ex, Unreal 2, Max Payne 1+2, Nolf 1+2, CoD, Far Cry, Civ IV, F.E.A.R and many more

Oct 3, 2004, 04:28 PM	#36
Shadow Lady Avril Fan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere in colombia, okok, bogotá city :p Posts: 1,262 Rep Power: 0	besides, right now, at least here in colombia is difficult to see a pci-e mobo for lower than 200 dolars =-I __________________ Oblivion ftw

Oct 3, 2004, 05:46 PM	#38
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 62	I've been hearing alot of things about PCIe giving "NO MAJOR PERFORMANCE INCREASE" and I had something interesting on my mind... according to Zardon's benchmarks on a whole mess of radeon cards...the X800XT PE AGP is FASTER in EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK than the PCIe version. I've seen this true for nVidia cards too in several benchmarks. Its not a BIG difference, but its a noticable one when you look at the numbers. Funny thing is: The ATI cards have native PCIe boards so in theory, the AGP versions should be slower when having to go through that bridge chip. Fact is that they just arent for some reason. can anyone explain this? __________________

Oct 3, 2004, 06:05 PM	#39
Shinjikun 第3 子供 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nerv HQ Posts: 1,319 Rep Power: 0	Of course there will be a performance increase because there is more bandwidth in PCI-e. Right now nothing really uses that bandwidth so there isn't a dramatic performance increase, but later on down the road once more intensive titles start coming out that use the additional memory bandwidth then we'll see the difference. Right now if you have a decent to fast AGP based system there is nothing to justify the hundreds of dollars required to get 5 more FPS. __________________ Xfire: [Shinji1225 \ Status] A7N8X-E Deluxe Athlon XP 2500+ (@ 2.2 GHz 11x200 MHz FSB) Corsair TwinX XMS 1GB PC3200 Dual Channel (2-2-3-5) [color=red]ATi [/color][color=white]Radeon 9500 Pro (@ 330\310) \ [/color][color=white]Omega Catalyst Drivers v2.5.90[/color] [color=white]Ultra X-Connect 500W PSU[/color]

Oct 3, 2004, 09:52 PM	#43
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,665 Rep Power: 109 System Specs	[COLOR=Red]Voters: 4163. [/COLOR] You have already voted on this poll Wow- that's a lot of voters, __________________

Oct 2, 2004, 07:47 PM	#31
edperks HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 780 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I think ATI should release an AGP version of the X700 as this is a medium range card and alot of people who buy medium range products are usually on a budget and they will not have a motherboard that will support the new PCI express or have room in there budget for the new MB. Just my 2 cents.

Oct 2, 2004, 10:27 PM	#32
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	What a tremendous output so far.

Oct 2, 2004, 10:54 PM	#33
Bart1987 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 634 Rep Power: 0	I would (probably) buy one to replace my 9700NP, if there was an AGP x700pro/xt. I would rather have one of those instead of a 9800pro/xt. But ofcourse it would depend on the price of things. If they were priced the same as the pci-e version, or close to that, I would buy one.

Oct 3, 2004, 06:28 PM	#41
Razgriz Intelligence? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On the edge of insanity Posts: 1,183 Rep Power: 53	I agree with a lot of the guys here in thinking that ATI should release a x700 AGP card. I think the community would have a HUGE response to this, because the newer games coming out are going to be stressed, because the textures,models,etc. are so demanding

Oct 3, 2004, 07:24 PM	#42
kelticknight DriverHeaven Knight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: EIRE{great for black stuff ,bulmers cider and Munster rubgy Posts: 1,095 Rep Power: 0	for me at this is clear for me,l have upgraded my case,m-board,cpua nd ram this year.lm happy with it.have no intenion to get pci-e for a couple of years.theirs no reason for me to spend 800 euros or more to rebuild my rig to get pci-e .its new and in growing stages.l work in europes main dell manfacturing plant here in ireland and sell only some of dell's rig going pci-e,mostly gaming rigs.engineers want see how it goes.for me the only item l will change soon is g-card at xmass ati x800xt pe and thats all for a while.will be best part of year before you see games and programs benfit more from pci-e cheers

Oct 3, 2004, 11:09 PM	#44
Shinjikun 第3 子供 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nerv HQ Posts: 1,319 Rep Power: 0	Almost 80% of the DriverHeaven forum members think ATi should bring the X700 to the AGP market... that's saying something. __________________ Xfire: [Shinji1225 \ Status] A7N8X-E Deluxe Athlon XP 2500+ (@ 2.2 GHz 11x200 MHz FSB) Corsair TwinX XMS 1GB PC3200 Dual Channel (2-2-3-5) [color=red]ATi [/color][color=white]Radeon 9500 Pro (@ 330\310) \ [/color][color=white]Omega Catalyst Drivers v2.5.90[/color] [color=white]Ultra X-Connect 500W PSU[/color]

Oct 3, 2004, 11:24 PM	#45
Blazer Tweeker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kitchener Posts: 611 Rep Power: 61 System Specs	Like the others said, I think that it would be a good idea for ATI to make an agp model available as well, because my curent board/cpu/ram combo doesn't justify upgrading just yet to pci-e, and I am sure allot of other people are in the same boat. __________________ ASUS Maximus Formula, OCZ 780MXS ps, Core2 Duo 8400 @ 3.80GHz,Corsair Water cooling kit, 4x2gb Mushkin DDR2 8000, 5 hardrives totalling 1.75 TB, Sapphire Theatrix, SyncMaster 2343, Logitech MX-518, 2 Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 Crossfired , running on Windows7 64 bit, all in an Antec P160w Case.

Oct 4, 2004, 08:57 AM	#50
RStrada DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Please GOD illuminate this people to create this video card in AGP

Oct 4, 2004, 02:40 PM	#51
Shadow Lady Avril Fan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere in colombia, okok, bogotá city :p Posts: 1,262 Rep Power: 0	they are iluminated, just not inspired enought __________________ Oblivion ftw

Oct 4, 2004, 04:33 PM	#52
kelticknight DriverHeaven Knight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: EIRE{great for black stuff ,bulmers cider and Munster rubgy Posts: 1,095 Rep Power: 0	l agree with all who think ati should release agp card x700,spec's are good and so is price.not everyone can afford top end ati cards

Oct 4, 2004, 06:20 PM	Thread Starter #54
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	All I can say is ATI are aware of this poll and have taken notes

Oct 4, 2004, 07:11 PM	#56
swimtech HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,040 Rep Power: 122 System Specs	What's the difference in the market? I would guess that the X700 is made to be sold by OEM's like Dell for their PCIe gaming rigs - it is a great fit for introducing PCIe via sales of new computers based upon the new architecture to the masses and give them a great gaming experience for not too much money. However, those individuals and small shops that build new PCIe computers for themselves or their clients (for max performance where cost is not the most important consideration) are more likely to include the X800 PCIe card because of the appeal of having the "latest and greatest", "biggest and baddest" - and those units would be! Fantastic gaming rigs those will be... I'm thinking that the PCIe version of the X700 will be passed over and not used by that market. An AGP version of the X700 would be of great appeal to a great majority of intelligent, modest means based individuals. It could be the card of choice for upgraders who, at the time, bought 9500 pros or 9700's and want to keep all the rest of their components intact. It would also appeal to those who are building systems today and know that - for probably a year or so - PCIe won't increase performance, games for the next year or two will play great on an AGP based system, and (of great importance) want the most cost-effective system they can get. An X700 AGP card could give individuals an option for relatively low cost with very good gaming capability while PCIe settles in... __________________ It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

Oct 4, 2004, 11:18 PM	#57
Shadow Lady Avril Fan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere in colombia, okok, bogotá city :p Posts: 1,262 Rep Power: 0	mmm... with the upcoming ati bridge, this wouldnt be an issue anymore, i wonder how cheap wilkl that bridge be __________________ Oblivion ftw

Oct 4, 2004, 11:38 PM	#58
nuG is having a sexy party Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: East Coast Posts: 1,779 Rep Power: 0	actually now that i think about it they should. I voted i dont care but now i see that a x700xt would make a nice new edition to my pc __________________ [COLOR=Black][/COLOR]

Oct 5, 2004, 05:25 AM	#59
apoch003 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: usa Posts: 214 Rep Power: 0	Why should we care about ATi's business decisions?