ok who still hand codes HTML?

Malus · Aug 11, 2002, 07:25 AM

I just think it is easier to visualize the design in my head, draw and slice ith PS, and then code it. Of course, I tend to program in XHTML Strict and Transitional, so a WYSIWYG editor wouldn't help too much.

radTube · Aug 11, 2002, 10:42 AM

It's frustrating to see all those oh so graphical, obviously WYSIWYG-designed sites with little or no real content. So nice to wait for a few minutes for a page to load, then wait again for IE to load it since the page won't look right in your favourite browser, just to admire the beauty of the design. "I'll never be back but it sure is a nice looking page."

Ok.. I admit this post might seem a bit out of topic, but the bottom line is this: Working in a WYSIWYG-editor can often make you forget the point. It so sadly common to find content modified or sacrificed for the sake of style.

Another thing to ponder: How many visits is your magnificently stylish page going to get from people who use a hand held internet device, a net capable cell phone or somesuch. Just what are they going to see?

Smoothdrive · Aug 13, 2002, 11:25 PM

Well with all do respect, handcoding is very very time-consuming, i've done some hand-coded pages a long time ago (97 or so) switched to frontpage an later to dreamweaver since it just works much much faster while creating..still comes in handy to know something about handcoding sometimes to debug a page.
Well about the contents..yes there are far too many pages out there without decent content..than again who says i can't make and publish a page without decent content just for the fun of it..it's fun just making a page with some holiday pictures or whatever on it and showing it to your friends or family..
For the record Í am not a proffesional designer or webmaster or whatever..i just like to hobby around with websites sometimes

The applications available now just made it easier for anyone to create a website leading to increased internet use, leading to increased computer sales leading to lower prices and increased development budgets for the manufacturers, leading to better and cheaper stuff for everyone..what's wrong with that ??

Only problem i can think of is that it is hard to get your page noted when you do have content you feel needs watching by the world..

Jeff · Aug 14, 2002, 08:15 AM

Dreamweaver MX can do XHTML Transitional quite well, but since I use strict now anyways, and since Dreamweaver isn't all that good for coding PHP

I'll stick with hand coding.

Malus · Aug 14, 2002, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyborg
Dreamweaver MX can do XHTML Transitional quite well, but since I use strict now anyways, and since Dreamweaver isn't all that good for coding PHP I'll stick with hand coding.

Exactly.

Smoothdrive · Aug 14, 2002, 08:58 PM

Well you got me there..never got any further than using layers...i don't even know what xhtml or php does..so i gues i don't use it..is that all databse/application related stuff ?? ok i know i shouldn't be part of this discussion..shame on me..

EmXtrix · Jul 15, 2003, 06:06 AM

I definitely use both and when dealing with Dreamweaver it's usually 95% in the code-section.

JLP · Jul 15, 2003, 12:18 PM

I do it using plain text editors. Visual editors just create bloated and nonstandard code and you don't have total control over HTML.

tek · Jul 15, 2003, 12:36 PM

DEF. use Dreamweaver MX, handcode about 70% off the HTML, 30% in the work-window.
Hey I'm not that good with HTML, but I am with photoshop7 so blah!

RIV@NVX · Jul 15, 2003, 11:53 PM

I usually create a page in Dreamweaver MX/Mozilla Composer and then edit HTML source in something like syn Text Editor.

MrCodeDude · Aug 24, 2003, 11:33 PM

I use CuteHTML for hand-coding to get the general design down. Then I use FrontPage and Dreamweaver MX to make little cosmetic changes. Mostly everything I do is hand-coded though, You can tell because I spend more time on the formatting of my code than the code itself

rockandchelle · Aug 24, 2003, 11:41 PM

I handcode everything I do (which isn't much), and I use Homesite. My most elaborate website that I am continuing to work on is http://www.alslawncare.com/

gunther · Aug 26, 2003, 09:50 PM

Handcoding and 100% valid non-bloat code (no errors or warnings). Accept no less..

FYI, I use cellular connection, page bloat makes my connection scream for help.

RIV@NVX · Sep 1, 2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gunther
Handcoding and 100% valid non-bloat code (no errors or warnings). Accept no less..

Something like Quadrone or Newt Edge?

Jeff · Sep 2, 2003, 08:54 PM

Okay, happy to say, I still hand code HTML.

Malus · Sep 3, 2003, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyborg
Okay, happy to say, I still hand code HTML.

Yay!

kinke · Sep 8, 2003, 01:57 PM

hand-coding for me too... homesite (static (x)html, xsl) and ultraedit (xml, asp, asp.net, php)

UberLord · Sep 8, 2003, 02:16 PM

I use UltraEdit @ work for some PHP stuff

Nice editor - well worth the monies

Phylter · Sep 11, 2003, 03:52 AM

I still hand code my html, php, asp. I can't stand WYSIWYG editors.

ToshiroOC · Sep 11, 2003, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phylter
I still hand code my html, php, asp. I can't stand WYSIWYG editors.

Amen

GUNNIX · Oct 15, 2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew275
I handcode all my HTML. I use HomeSite for my text editing.

I do use Homesite too , handcode everything. It doesn't take a lot of time tho , just copy-paste the header,title of a finished html page and then fill in the content

.

I can't stand WYSIWYG editors neither, my brother uses frontpage

.

http://www.gpure.tk This is my first and only website , I just started with html one month ago

I still don't know which way is best to optimize my jpg files, I used some jpg program to shrink the jpg's down, but I'm still not satisfied.

RIV@NVX · Oct 16, 2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GUNNIX
I still don't know which way is best to optimize my jpg files, I used some jpg program to shrink the jpg's down, but I'm still not satisfied.

Don't use JPG, just use PNG. It usually compresses much better (proof - http://phoenity.com/newtedge/gradient_effect/)

GUNNIX · Oct 16, 2003, 04:45 PM

The PNG gives me worse quality and bigger size of files. You should know I am talking about compressing screenshots from sof2. Just check out the sof2 section of my site.
for your information:
I did the conversion with Irfanview
jpg to png
png with: compression ratio 9
24bit and 8bit were both terribly looking and bigger

Feral · Oct 16, 2003, 05:09 PM

I hand-code.

Jeff · Oct 16, 2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GUNNIX
The PNG gives me worse quality and bigger size of files. You should know I am talking about compressing screenshots from sof2. Just check out the sof2 section of my site.
for your information:
I did the conversion with Irfanview
jpg to png
png with: compression ratio 9
24bit and 8bit were both terribly looking and bigger

PNG is lossless, don't know what you did, but usually it's size is about the same as JPG, sometimes larger, sometimes smaller.

JLP · Oct 17, 2003, 11:00 AM

Yup PNG is lossless so it can't get you worse quality. But then again PNG is meant to be a replacement for GIF files and it almost always gives you much smaller files here and offers you more flexibility. As for JPGs it depends on the original picture. Usualy if you have some complex photo for example for desktop background then PNG gives you bigger files (but also lossless).

Aug 11, 2002, 07:25 AM	#31
Malus BSD SMASH! Join Date: May 2002 Location: A rabbit hole. . . Posts: 1,170 Rep Power: 0	I just think it is easier to visualize the design in my head, draw and slice ith PS, and then code it. Of course, I tend to program in XHTML Strict and Transitional, so a WYSIWYG editor wouldn't help too much. __________________ quad (FreeBSD/amd64 8-CURRENT): Intel Q6600 - Asus P5E-VM HDMI - 2x2 GB Kingston PC6400 DDR2 Ram - Seagate 320GB 7200RPM HD - 2xSeagate 1TB 7200RPM HD in RAID 1 via ZFS - Lite-On 20x DVD Multi Recorder - Coolermaster Centurion 5 router (FreeBSD/amd64 8-CURRENT): Intel E4500 - Intel D945GCNL - 2 GB PC6400 Mushkin Ram - Lite-On 48x24x48x16 - Seagate 320GB 7200RPM HD - Silverstone SST-SG02-F wanderer (FreeBSD/i386 7-CURRENT): Lenovo Thinkpad T61p mini (OS X 10.5): Intel Core 2 Duo @ 1.8Ghz, 4 GB Mushkin PC5400 Ram - Headroom MicroDAC Portable sound: Rockboxed iPod Video -> Westone UM2's Not-So-Portable Sound: Headroon MicroDAC -> Singlepower PPX3-SLAM -> Grado RS-1's or Beyerdynamic DT-880's Very-Not-Portable-Sound: Squeezebox v3 -> Denon AVR-1507 -> B&W 683's & Sunfire HRS-10

Aug 11, 2002, 10:42 AM	#32
radTube just keepin' it cool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0	It's frustrating to see all those oh so graphical, obviously WYSIWYG-designed sites with little or no real content. So nice to wait for a few minutes for a page to load, then wait again for IE to load it since the page won't look right in your favourite browser, just to admire the beauty of the design. "I'll never be back but it sure is a nice looking page." Ok.. I admit this post might seem a bit out of topic, but the bottom line is this: Working in a WYSIWYG-editor can often make you forget the point. It so sadly common to find content modified or sacrificed for the sake of style. Another thing to ponder: How many visits is your magnificently stylish page going to get from people who use a hand held internet device, a net capable cell phone or somesuch. Just what are they going to see? __________________ [color=orange] [/color]

Aug 13, 2002, 11:25 PM	#33
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Well with all do respect, handcoding is very very time-consuming, i've done some hand-coded pages a long time ago (97 or so) switched to frontpage an later to dreamweaver since it just works much much faster while creating..still comes in handy to know something about handcoding sometimes to debug a page. Well about the contents..yes there are far too many pages out there without decent content..than again who says i can't make and publish a page without decent content just for the fun of it..it's fun just making a page with some holiday pictures or whatever on it and showing it to your friends or family.. For the record Í am not a proffesional designer or webmaster or whatever..i just like to hobby around with websites sometimes The applications available now just made it easier for anyone to create a website leading to increased internet use, leading to increased computer sales leading to lower prices and increased development budgets for the manufacturers, leading to better and cheaper stuff for everyone..what's wrong with that ?? Only problem i can think of is that it is hard to get your page noted when you do have content you feel needs watching by the world.. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 14, 2002, 08:15 AM	#34
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,191 Rep Power: 80	Dreamweaver MX can do XHTML Transitional quite well, but since I use strict now anyways, and since Dreamweaver isn't all that good for coding PHP I'll stick with hand coding. __________________

Aug 14, 2002, 08:58 PM	#36
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Well you got me there..never got any further than using layers...i don't even know what xhtml or php does..so i gues i don't use it..is that all databse/application related stuff ?? ok i know i shouldn't be part of this discussion..shame on me.. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Jul 15, 2003, 06:06 AM	#37
EmXtrix DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	I definitely use both and when dealing with Dreamweaver it's usually 95% in the code-section. __________________ PCsynapse.com - Articles, Reviews, Discussions (Newly Revamped!) "When the sky looks like crap, that's when you know it's time for God to change his graphics card"

Jul 15, 2003, 12:18 PM	#38
JLP DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Slovenia Posts: 249 Rep Power: 0	Hand I do it using plain text editors. Visual editors just create bloated and nonstandard code and you don't have total control over HTML. __________________ Get Firefox! Get Thunderbird!

Jul 15, 2003, 12:36 PM	#39
tek DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, US Posts: 2,103 Rep Power: 0	DEF. use Dreamweaver MX, handcode about 70% off the HTML, 30% in the work-window. Hey I'm not that good with HTML, but I am with photoshop7 so blah! __________________ [COLOR=White][/COLOR]

Jul 15, 2003, 11:53 PM	#40
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I usually create a page in Dreamweaver MX/Mozilla Composer and then edit HTML source in something like syn Text Editor. __________________ -- Vedran

Aug 24, 2003, 11:33 PM	#41
MrCodeDude DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	I use CuteHTML for hand-coding to get the general design down. Then I use FrontPage and Dreamweaver MX to make little cosmetic changes. Mostly everything I do is hand-coded though, You can tell because I spend more time on the formatting of my code than the code itself

Aug 24, 2003, 11:41 PM	#42
rockandchelle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2003 Location: Georgia Posts: 106 Rep Power: 0	I handcode everything I do (which isn't much), and I use Homesite. My most elaborate website that I am continuing to work on is http://www.alslawncare.com/ __________________ \| AMD XP 2500+ (O/C 2185) \| ASUS A7N8X Deluxe \| 512 mb Crucial PC2700 (sync @ 190) \| ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb \| \| 40 GB Maxtor HardDrive 7200 \| 30 GB WD HardDrive 7200 \| Lian-Li PC60 Modded Case \| ANTEC True430 \| \| SK6 Heatsink \| Cox Cable \| Gentoo Linux 1.4 \| XP Home SP1 \|

Aug 26, 2003, 09:50 PM	#43
gunther DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: error. Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Handcoding and 100% valid non-bloat code (no errors or warnings). Accept no less.. FYI, I use cellular connection, page bloat makes my connection scream for help. Last edited by gunther; Aug 26, 2003 at 09:56 PM.

Sep 2, 2003, 08:54 PM	#45
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,191 Rep Power: 80	Okay, happy to say, I still hand code HTML. __________________

Sep 8, 2003, 01:57 PM	#47
kinke DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: .it Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	hand-coding for me too... homesite (static (x)html, xsl) and ultraedit (xml, asp, asp.net, php)

Sep 8, 2003, 02:16 PM	#48
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	I use UltraEdit @ work for some PHP stuff Nice editor - well worth the monies __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Sep 11, 2003, 03:52 AM	#49
Phylter DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Illinois, USA Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	I still hand code my html, php, asp. I can't stand WYSIWYG editors.

Oct 16, 2003, 04:45 PM	#53
GUNNIX DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 157 Rep Power: 0	The PNG gives me worse quality and bigger size of files. You should know I am talking about compressing screenshots from sof2. Just check out the sof2 section of my site. for your information: I did the conversion with Irfanview jpg to png png with: compression ratio 9 24bit and 8bit were both terribly looking and bigger

Oct 16, 2003, 05:09 PM	#54
Feral DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	I hand-code.

Oct 17, 2003, 11:00 AM	#56
JLP DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Slovenia Posts: 249 Rep Power: 0	Yup PNG is lossless so it can't get you worse quality. But then again PNG is meant to be a replacement for GIF files and it almost always gives you much smaller files here and offers you more flexibility. As for JPGs it depends on the original picture. Usualy if you have some complex photo for example for desktop background then PNG gives you bigger files (but also lossless).