Start?

***craig5320*** · Jul 20, 2002, 01:46 PM

Hi,

Yes I kno the typical n00b has 2 months spare time thinks he can learn to program, blah blah blah, but everyone has got to start somewhere.

What I'd like to kno is, what language you guys advise to start with, any tips, pointer,s websites you think may be of use and that, and the best way to learn. i.e. are those leanr C++ in 21days book a good investment?

thanx for your time.

Craig

Yeti · Jul 20, 2002, 01:50 PM

Go take a programming class... they are far better than any book. As for the learn in 21 days *crap* don't use that.

Logic is very simple... you already know 1+1... if you want to "learn" programming what you need is experience. A class can provide you with that.

If you are looking for a book, however, get a reference manual which covers what you are looking for... file io, graphics... etc...

Just my opinion.

Shaith · Jul 20, 2002, 01:52 PM

I vote for C as it will teach you good debugging skills, basics for other languages like C++, and yet isn't totally vague or obscure. Looking through the average C program available for download out there will give you a general idea of how things work.

Assembler will teach you the low-level nuances you need to become a really good programmer, but it helps to have some experience before diving in with ASM.

VB is the worst of the bunch as it teaches sloppy coding skills. You can do the same thing in C++ - granted it's not point/click/drag/drop, but in the end, your software will be faster, less bloated, and far easier to debug and build onto than the same program in VB.

jessejlt · Jul 20, 2002, 02:07 PM

Personally, I think starting with VB is the best option. Yes VB is a shit langauge, but it has enough of an "English" quality to it so that a no0b can understand it, yet when they transition to a manditory language like C++, its smooth because of their slight understanding of the way a computer reads / compiles / executes that data input.
C++ in my opinion is a bit too "Linux" for a no0b to jump into.
jesse ;-)

digitalwanderer · Jul 20, 2002, 02:23 PM

Basic. Not "Visual Basic", but old school basic with the good old line numbers and the "goto" statement. (I miss the "goto" statement.

)

~~Crash Override~~ · Jul 20, 2002, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Basic. Not "Visual Basic", but old school basic with the good old line numbers and the "goto" statement. (I miss the "goto" statement. )

Preach it on Brother Dig

I used to program in Basic when I was like 10

Before that I was programming the comodore 64 games

Yeti · Jul 20, 2002, 03:06 PM

Quote:

"goto" statement. (I miss the "goto" statement.

I hate the bastards for getting rid of GOTO. It's my RIGHT to tell the program what to f@kking do!!!! Structure my ass!!!

:HATE:

digitalwanderer · Jul 20, 2002, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
I hate the bastards for getting rid of GOTO. It's my RIGHT to tell the program what to f@kking do!!!! Structure my ass!!!

:HATE:

FINALLY! Someone who agrees with me! I used to spend hours arguing that one with my old prof.

~~Sourcer_2002~~ · Jul 20, 2002, 07:53 PM

Hell im only 15 years old and ive already built four rigs and ive messed around with basic before when i had my very first comp. ( i was like 10 and it was an AMD K7

LoL what power) crashed on me and i was stuck in DOS and was like WTF lol then i started to read up what commands could be run at the command line and so forth and now im i am kinda in C++.

***craig5320*** · Jul 20, 2002, 11:05 PM

K7 5 years ago? :S

radTube · Jul 21, 2002, 12:32 AM

C64 basic must have been the ultimate n00b-language, as it seems that more than a few of us programmed their C64:s when they were 10 years old. Well me and Crash at least. ...and Sourcer, you probably mean k6?

Malus · Jul 21, 2002, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
I hate the bastards for getting rid of GOTO. It's my RIGHT to tell the program what to f@kking do!!!! Structure my ass!!!

:HATE:

So all of our programs can look like, and run like, shit?

Yeti · Jul 21, 2002, 07:10 AM

Quote:

FINALLY! Someone who agrees with me! I used to spend hours arguing that one with my old prof. Smilie

Thats nothing, i personally think that all "high level languages" are shit... if i had the option, i would write in assembly :/

Quote:

So all of our programs can look like, and run like, shit?

You mean so that we actually have to concentrate on programming, learn how to debug, and actually get that last 2% of performance?

Yeah... something like that...

~~Sourcer_2002~~ · Jul 21, 2002, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by radTube
C64 basic must have been the ultimate n00b-language, as it seems that more than a few of us programmed their C64:s when they were 10 years old. Well me and Crash at least. ...and Sourcer, you probably mean k6?

Ya sorry i ment AMD K6-2 my bad i was in another world when i wrote that post.

UberLord · Jul 22, 2002, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shaith
VB is the worst of the bunch as it teaches sloppy coding skills. You can do the same thing in C++ - granted it's not point/click/drag/drop, but in the end, your software will be faster, less bloated, and far easier to debug and build onto than the same program in VB.

Urban Myth 101

VB does NOT teach sloppy coding skills - it's the teacher/book thats to blame for that

99% of the time, VB is just as fast as C/C++. The main instances where it's slower is handling very large strings (say > 64kb) and subclassing.
I'd also say that VB is much easier to debug due to the IDE nature of handling a crash

However, you're deffo right about VB being bloated.

But I WONT recommend it as a starting language mainly because M$ have killed it with Visual Studio .NET
I haven't had the chance to look @ .NET yet, but when/if I do then I'll prolly go down the C# route as C# was made for .NET whilst VB.NET was tacked on as an afterthought

Also, neither language is portable to other platforms - so I'd say go down the C/C++ route

merry · Jul 26, 2002, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
Thats nothing, i personally think that all "high level languages" are shit... if i had the option, i would write in assembly :/

Goodie goodie goodie!

Any online resources you would recommend?

Any sw? Assembler/linker/debugger etc?

And - most of all - any good tut on interfacing with the OS? Win32 that is.

Thanks in advance.

Jul 20, 2002, 01:46 PM	#1
*craig5320* HH Administrator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 8,578 Rep Power: 445 System Specs	Start? Hi, Yes I kno the typical n00b has 2 months spare time thinks he can learn to program, blah blah blah, but everyone has got to start somewhere. What I'd like to kno is, what language you guys advise to start with, any tips, pointer,s websites you think may be of use and that, and the best way to learn. i.e. are those leanr C++ in 21days book a good investment? thanx for your time. Craig __________________ HardwareHeaven on Facebook

Jul 20, 2002, 01:50 PM	#2
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Go take a programming class... they are far better than any book. As for the learn in 21 days crap don't use that. Logic is very simple... you already know 1+1... if you want to "learn" programming what you need is experience. A class can provide you with that. If you are looking for a book, however, get a reference manual which covers what you are looking for... file io, graphics... etc... Just my opinion. __________________ --Oh lord not again

Jul 20, 2002, 01:52 PM	#3
Shaith HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 916 Rep Power: 0	To C or not to C I vote for C as it will teach you good debugging skills, basics for other languages like C++, and yet isn't totally vague or obscure. Looking through the average C program available for download out there will give you a general idea of how things work. Assembler will teach you the low-level nuances you need to become a really good programmer, but it helps to have some experience before diving in with ASM. VB is the worst of the bunch as it teaches sloppy coding skills. You can do the same thing in C++ - granted it's not point/click/drag/drop, but in the end, your software will be faster, less bloated, and far easier to debug and build onto than the same program in VB.

Jul 20, 2002, 02:07 PM	#4
jessejlt DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	Personally, I think starting with VB is the best option. Yes VB is a shit langauge, but it has enough of an "English" quality to it so that a no0b can understand it, yet when they transition to a manditory language like C++, its smooth because of their slight understanding of the way a computer reads / compiles / executes that data input. C++ in my opinion is a bit too "Linux" for a no0b to jump into. jesse ;-) __________________ MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU AMD Athlon XP 1600+ Vantec CCK-6027D HSF Crucial PC2100 256mb DDR Maxtor 40GB 7200rpm ATA133 Leadtek geForce 2mx SH MAX 400 Philips CDRW1200 Philips 107S 17" Antec 1030 Enermax 350W

Jul 20, 2002, 02:23 PM	#5
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	Basic Basic. Not "Visual Basic", but old school basic with the good old line numbers and the "goto" statement. (I miss the "goto" statement. ) __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jul 20, 2002, 07:53 PM	#9
~~Sourcer_2002~~ BANNED Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Indiana , USA Posts: 2,677 Rep Power: 0	Ya Hell im only 15 years old and ive already built four rigs and ive messed around with basic before when i had my very first comp. ( i was like 10 and it was an AMD K7 LoL what power) crashed on me and i was stuck in DOS and was like WTF lol then i started to read up what commands could be run at the command line and so forth and now im i am kinda in C++.

Jul 20, 2002, 11:05 PM	Thread Starter #10
*craig5320* HH Administrator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 8,578 Rep Power: 445 System Specs	K7 5 years ago? :S __________________ HardwareHeaven on Facebook

Jul 21, 2002, 12:32 AM	#11
radTube just keepin' it cool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0	C64 basic must have been the ultimate n00b-language, as it seems that more than a few of us programmed their C64:s when they were 10 years old. Well me and Crash at least. ...and Sourcer, you probably mean k6? __________________ [color=orange] [/color]