Pb with Soundfonts and 3538m drivers

Tintin72 · Feb 24, 2007, 01:38 PM

Hi,

I work with Sonar 2.2 and 3537 kx drivers over 1 year, and everything seems ok.
Lately I installed the 3538m drivers, and I noticed some strange
behaviors while playing soundfonts.

1) If I play note(s) on my midi keyboard just after started playback (or record),
the first note played sounds incredibly loud !!! (next notes sound at the initial volume)

2) Sometimes during playback, some sounfont instruments are suddenly paned at full right (or full left it depends) and then return at their initial pan. It occures just 1 seconde, but I can hear it.

Everything looks as if soundfont manager was working over limits and was experiencing difficulty to reading soundfonts.
Yet, I've just 50 Mo of soundfonts loaded.
With 3537 kx drivers version I used to load 100 Mo of soundfonts whithout this kind of pb.

Have someone any clues about this pb ?
Should I reinstall the 3537 kx drivers version instead 3538m version ?

Thanks for advance.

My PC:
AMD Barton 2600
Motherboard Asrock K7S8XE
Chipset SIS
RAM 1.5 Go
Soundcard SB Audigy Platinum eX
KX Drivers 3538
Windows XP

Maddogg6 · Feb 24, 2007, 06:42 PM

you should note that, its my understanding that the KX SF manager - while we can load SF's bigger than 32MB - they are 'cached' and those > 32MB won't be available all at 1 time. I believe is now causing your issues.

I have experienced the pan problem on rare occasions - of when I load more than 32MB of Sondfonts that I didn't experience before in earlier versions of KX.
If you can find it - you may want to try KX version 3538J as IIRC, seemed to be the best at dealing with >32 MB SF's... but again - its rare when I try using more than 32MB at one time - so I cant make any promises either.

Additionally - I would reccommend trying the free VSTi SF player (SFz+)
But you of course loose some 'SENDS' ability unique to KX if you have a 10K2 based card (SEND E-H / MIDI CC#16-19)

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Feb 24, 2007, 08:42 PM

tintin72: do you change the volume level of the track?
is the issue repeatable if you set track volume to 127?

sonar might be sending 'reset all controllers' command which resets track properties
it is up to sonar to re-send volume/reverb/pan controllers again and at the necessary time

E.

Tintin72 · Feb 24, 2007, 10:06 PM

Thanks for your answers

Quote:

while we can load SF's bigger than 32MB - they are 'cached' and those > 32MB won't be available all at 1 time. I believe is now causing your issues.

The 4 soundfonts I loaded are smaller than 32 Mo.
Each are more or less 15 Mo.

Quote:

do you change the volume level of the track?

Yes

Quote:

is the issue repeatable if you set track volume to 127?

Yes
It sounds (very loud and saturate) as if the soundfont signal was reinjected in preamp or something.

Quote:

sonar might be sending 'reset all controllers' command which resets track properties
it is up to sonar to re-send volume/reverb/pan controllers again and at the necessary time

I checked it up and I didn't find anything wrong.
I'm not sure if Sonar is involved in that issue, I use it since 3 or 4 years whitout
pb of that kind.

Any idea ?

Tintin72 · Feb 25, 2007, 02:39 PM

Finaly, too seek to fight against Sonar, drivers etc...., I reinstalled
the 3534f drivers version.
(in the post I talk about 3537 drivers version but actually I meaned 3534f, sorry)
Now everything works perfect.
No more loud sounds neither pan randomely changing, and Soundfonts seem well managed.
It seems I'm the one who experience this kind of pb with 3538m drivers.
Is my Sonar's version too old ?
I'd like to use 3538m version and profit from the new improvements and features

Maddogg6 · Feb 25, 2007, 07:48 PM

Well - to eliminate Sonar from the equation - you can export the MIDI stuff to a midi file - and load the SF's into KX manually in the KX Sound Font manager - and see of they play correctly in winamp (using KX synth X) for midi INPUT device - or setup windows to use KX Synth as default MIDI device and play it in windows media player.
edit: Just make sure the saved midi file will use MIDI PORT 0 or one - in other words don't have mutiple midiports used and make sure they are the first midi port you have configured in sonar - this was a problem in older sonar versions.

I would try winamp, becuase you can set up is a reset is to be sent between tracks or not:
Winamp: Options > Preferences > Plug Ins >INPUT > Nullsoft Midi player > Configure > MIDI extensions Dropdown - try None and GM.

Oh also - I notice (because I have the 'Platinum') the IR remote control will send SYSEX thru the KX Control Midi port - This is prolly irrelevant to you.. maybe ?? - I thought the EX had IR remotes too ?) , but now... I also wonder if those 2 midi ports are interacting for you.
Are you also using KX Automation as well ?
If not, that may be a work around for you - set up KX router to use more FXBuss lines for KX synths - and insert PAN plug ins in the KX DSP - and use KX Automation to control the panning instead of MID CC#10 as mpst would normally.
To make this easier in sonar; You can convert Midi CC's # to another CC# with the EDIT > INTERPOLATE or with CAL (But not all versions of Sonar has this ability - which seems to have been dropped with Sonar 6, hmm - not real popular, but was quite useful in the past for me for such things)

Also - it also sounds like you may have a compressor, or dynamics processor in line with the KXSynths in the KX DSP - I have had that 'loud' initial volume - until the attack of the compressor lowered the volume - this can happen for heavy compression - when we want to raise low volume, but lower high volume inputs to the compressor.

Feb 24, 2007, 01:38 PM	#1
Tintin72 HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 38 Rep Power: 0	Pb with Soundfonts and 3538m drivers Hi, I work with Sonar 2.2 and 3537 kx drivers over 1 year, and everything seems ok. Lately I installed the 3538m drivers, and I noticed some strange behaviors while playing soundfonts. 1) If I play note(s) on my midi keyboard just after started playback (or record), the first note played sounds incredibly loud !!! (next notes sound at the initial volume) 2) Sometimes during playback, some sounfont instruments are suddenly paned at full right (or full left it depends) and then return at their initial pan. It occures just 1 seconde, but I can hear it. Everything looks as if soundfont manager was working over limits and was experiencing difficulty to reading soundfonts. Yet, I've just 50 Mo of soundfonts loaded. With 3537 kx drivers version I used to load 100 Mo of soundfonts whithout this kind of pb. Have someone any clues about this pb ? Should I reinstall the 3537 kx drivers version instead 3538m version ? Thanks for advance. My PC: AMD Barton 2600 Motherboard Asrock K7S8XE Chipset SIS RAM 1.5 Go Soundcard SB Audigy Platinum eX KX Drivers 3538 Windows XP

Feb 24, 2007, 06:42 PM	#2
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	you should note that, its my understanding that the KX SF manager - while we can load SF's bigger than 32MB - they are 'cached' and those > 32MB won't be available all at 1 time. I believe is now causing your issues. I have experienced the pan problem on rare occasions - of when I load more than 32MB of Sondfonts that I didn't experience before in earlier versions of KX. If you can find it - you may want to try KX version 3538J as IIRC, seemed to be the best at dealing with >32 MB SF's... but again - its rare when I try using more than 32MB at one time - so I cant make any promises either. Additionally - I would reccommend trying the free VSTi SF player (SFz+) But you of course loose some 'SENDS' ability unique to KX if you have a 10K2 based card (SEND E-H / MIDI CC#16-19)

Feb 24, 2007, 08:42 PM	#3
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	tintin72: do you change the volume level of the track? is the issue repeatable if you set track volume to 127? sonar might be sending 'reset all controllers' command which resets track properties it is up to sonar to re-send volume/reverb/pan controllers again and at the necessary time E.

Feb 25, 2007, 02:39 PM	Thread Starter #5
Tintin72 HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 38 Rep Power: 0	Finaly, too seek to fight against Sonar, drivers etc...., I reinstalled the 3534f drivers version. (in the post I talk about 3537 drivers version but actually I meaned 3534f, sorry) Now everything works perfect. No more loud sounds neither pan randomely changing, and Soundfonts seem well managed. It seems I'm the one who experience this kind of pb with 3538m drivers. Is my Sonar's version too old ? I'd like to use 3538m version and profit from the new improvements and features

Feb 25, 2007, 07:48 PM	#6
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	Well - to eliminate Sonar from the equation - you can export the MIDI stuff to a midi file - and load the SF's into KX manually in the KX Sound Font manager - and see of they play correctly in winamp (using KX synth X) for midi INPUT device - or setup windows to use KX Synth as default MIDI device and play it in windows media player. edit: Just make sure the saved midi file will use MIDI PORT 0 or one - in other words don't have mutiple midiports used and make sure they are the first midi port you have configured in sonar - this was a problem in older sonar versions. I would try winamp, becuase you can set up is a reset is to be sent between tracks or not: Winamp: Options > Preferences > Plug Ins >INPUT > Nullsoft Midi player > Configure > MIDI extensions Dropdown - try None and GM. Oh also - I notice (because I have the 'Platinum') the IR remote control will send SYSEX thru the KX Control Midi port - This is prolly irrelevant to you.. maybe ?? - I thought the EX had IR remotes too ?) , but now... I also wonder if those 2 midi ports are interacting for you. Are you also using KX Automation as well ? If not, that may be a work around for you - set up KX router to use more FXBuss lines for KX synths - and insert PAN plug ins in the KX DSP - and use KX Automation to control the panning instead of MID CC#10 as mpst would normally. To make this easier in sonar; You can convert Midi CC's # to another CC# with the EDIT > INTERPOLATE or with CAL (But not all versions of Sonar has this ability - which seems to have been dropped with Sonar 6, hmm - not real popular, but was quite useful in the past for me for such things) Also - it also sounds like you may have a compressor, or dynamics processor in line with the KXSynths in the KX DSP - I have had that 'loud' initial volume - until the attack of the compressor lowered the volume - this can happen for heavy compression - when we want to raise low volume, but lower high volume inputs to the compressor.