Buzzerman

OK, I am not sure how crazy it is to do this, but I'll throw it out there, who knows, maybe it can actually fly..

So I'm looking at what the kX drivers can do with the Audigy/Emu DSP and I really start boiling with hate at Creative for not showing us what their hardware can really do and not letting us use it as kX has shown we can (great work kX developers/maintainers, this is a work of genius).

Now I have to admit there is one little thing though that I still find "good" (oh noes! ) or at least decently implemented in the Creative drivers, while the kX drivers are still lagging behind: the hardware synth and the way it works with SoundFonts (though interestingly enough, it seems that Creative still managed to ruin and drop the ball on this one too when they (re)designed the X-Fi drivers).

Yes, I know it's not a priority for the kX developers -- and understandably so, since the routing, ASIO, GSIF, automation, DSP etc. features of kX are incredibly valuable and really amazing acomplishments..

So I was wondering if there is any easier way to have the best of both worlds, without much coding effort though -- the pro audio control features of kX along with the MIDI synth implementation from Creative..?! The hackers around here must know: how hard would it be to rip out the synth-related code (and microcode?!) from Creative drivers and patch it into the current kX project ?! I mean, clearly there are some limitations and issues with the current kx synth implementation that are not gonna get fixed soon in kX given the low priority of this kX midi synth -- e.g. the 32MB sample playback limitation, for which I think Creative has used some coding tricks to bypass it (on the Audigy drivers at least, not sure). And why reinvent the wheel if Creative actually got that part right for a change (or at least, most users got used to the way it worked, since AWE32, and it was generally OK).

I realize things are much more intricate than this (besides the legitimacy of the whole issue), but I still wish there was a way of hacking and mixing the two driver installations -- kX and Creative, such that the kX synth implementation be in fact dispatched to some remnant of the original Creative drivers, while everything else (routing, DSP fx, etc.) would be still controlled by the kX project that we know and love

Is this a feasible hacking/patching project ?

Maddogg6

ehh - the move is to software based audio now with multi-core CPU's. Hardware accelerated audio is obsolete - it was dropped in windows Vista.

Now the exciting things are using the GPU for things other than video.

a GPU based FFT spectrum analyzer perhaps.... ?? maybe. But thats not the kX Project goal either.

All in all - i doubt its an easy task, would likey be a breach of the NDA signed... and I read CL didnt even follow the specs they authored... so.... I wouldn't hold my breath. Very few really use the kX Synths...

Tyrsonswood

Don't know if it's what you're after but couldn't you use two cards, one with creative drivers for the hardware synths and one that handles all the audio and routing stuff with KX drivers?

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Buzzerman

@ Tyrsonswood -- indeed, I'm gonna get a 2nd Audigy 2 Platinum soon (cheap refurbished from Creative) and at least one of them is going to be dedicated to kX (though not in the same PC I guess I'll just network them).

@Maddogg6 -- are you saying that the sounfont hardware synth has been dropped in Vista? I didn't get that.. and wouldn't that be a terrible waste when you have a dedicated DSP chip ready to do it?! And in general, wasting CPU cycles with something that can be done by dedicated hardware is NOT a good/valid trend by any measure.. (think of the graphic cards).

BTW, I tried using that free convolution reverb on my Nvidia 8800 card and the latency was just horrible -- though I am still looking forward to perhaps better version of DSP FX implemented on GPU .

Back to the topic -- well, I was just hoping that such a hybrid would be possible; and yes, I still think a flexible hardware synth like the one that's possible on SB DSP is a very good thing to have.. Come on, don't you love it when your sequencer shows 0% CPU utilization while playing your custom instruments/arrangements? Having so much room to add whatever software synths/FX to the mix..

Maddogg6

Well, you read more into what I said than what I actually said.

Audio in Windows Vista - Windows Vista - Creative Labs

The direction an industry goes is not always what is most logical in 'all' aspects. 'The customer is always right' was never really true unless you are customer that lies in the group that makes up the majority of their revenue.

Sure I love the idea of my old hardware being utilized to its greatest potential - kX is a great feat on behalf of the few developers it has/had. but it *is* for old hardware - as in - not made anymore - only sold second hand. And this hardware has proprietary drivers - with only a handful of people privileged for access.

Combine that with how M$ comes out with new OS's quicker than these few devs can keep up with. kX Vista support is still beta, and Windows 7 is already out in beta... do you not sense the demise of kX? I hope I am wrong. I love what kX does.

But, Bottom line, Hardware = more dependencies. More dependency on proprietary knowledge. And the *need* for proprietary hardware is being replaced by the new CPUs and *open* software.

There are fundamental problems with our hardware - among other things... there is ownership of design and its limits to what software that can be designed to use that hardware. CL has not released their source code - he kX main developer has signed an Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) for the limited access they gave.

Software cant touch GPU performance, but GPU tech has quite a bit bigger budget for R&D than consumer/pro-am grade DSP hardware has now.

Software based audio on the other hand - is hardware independent - you dont need to buy a specific audio card to get the features it boasts. There for, its not driver dependent either - look at how long Audigy owners wait for XP drivers - some are still waiting for 'good' XP drivers. While VST's are churned out by the truck loads - obviously, there are more programmers familiar with 'soft' DSP in higher level languages than there are hardware DSP programmers.

Look at the old keyboard synths that are still in use that are 20+ years old. Why would the industry want to keep that low revenue earning ideology alive? When you can get people (professionals) to re-purchase that 'software' synth every time M$ come out with a new OS. And who cares about us hobbyists - theres no real money in it??

Its not my wish, its my reality.