Tweaking XP Registry to load large SF2?

Simon Georgiou · Nov 23, 2003, 05:20 PM

Has anyone tried this?I try load a large sf2 (fluidR3:150 Mb) but seems to crash due to low pool memory...I have 512 Mb of system memory and it worked fine with the SBLive drivers..Does anyone know what values exactly should i use in the Paged pool size and None paged pool size to make this work without crushing my system all the time?

lucioblues · Nov 23, 2003, 06:04 PM

it does not work, search the forum....

Game3DFreak · Dec 4, 2003, 01:02 PM

According to
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...ntry/29934.asp
the "NonPagedPoolQuota" can only be set to 0-128 for one process, so max available memory for soundfonts can only be 128 mb, even if you can set "NonPagedPoolSize" to a value higher than this. due to overhead (i suppose), you can only load up to ~ 116 mb; that's about the size i managed to use with the old sblive drivers too. however, since i've been using kx and altered the registry settings, it seems like i don't lose any samples anymore after playing for 5 minutes or so.

i guess you would need two processes then in order to be able to allocate more memory (up to 256mb maybe) ;-)

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Dec 4, 2003, 05:20 PM

unfortunately, the driver operates in system context, that's why windows kernel cannot allow >128Mb allocations (since the same 'process' is used...)
there's currently no known solution for this issue (although Creative drivers seem to allow to allocate up to 380Mb...)

/E

HunterZ · Dec 4, 2003, 06:55 PM

The Creative drivers may "seem to allow" it, but in my experience loading such large soundfonts always causes a Blue Screen sometime between loading the soundfont and playing a MIDI song for a few seconds.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Dec 4, 2003, 08:40 PM

Game3DFreak · Dec 5, 2003, 02:52 AM

strange...
on my system creative drivers (ct4760 with modified v5.12.1.383 drivers from Audigy) work perfectly even when loading large soundfonts (one giant 256mb piano soundfont - sounds very realistic but one octave too low :/) unfortunately). you have to tweak the NonPagedPoolSize setting of course.
what i noticed is that the used memory isn't released even after logoff... you have to restart. and i still don't know the difference between static and dynamic using the cl drivers. is there any??? even with dynamic setting, it seems to load the complete soundfont bank.
additionally, i experienced strange, random pops during playback (and sometimes even without playback). don't know where they came from. eax effects and 3d positional audio was a bit better than with older creative drivers.

i'm very impressed by the kx driver. it seems to work a bit 'faster' and it's surely not as bloated as liveware, but a bit more complicated of course. it took me a while to find out how to apply effects etc. the 3d positional audio is at least as good as with the original creative labs drivers, i would even say it's a bit better.
it's much easier to save and restore settings (soundfont collections, dsp settings, ...). this feature could still be improved by implementing a drop-down list on every mixer window (similarly to card selection list) = quickload function. and there could be a 'clear all soundfonts button' on the soundfont window (there is some space on the right side of the 'save collection button' *g*).

i hope that megafont can be made compatible with these drivers. i liked it a lot, although it certainly could have been made a bit better (easier to use, fewer bugs) if development wouldn't have been discontinued.
i would even try to help, but it's written in pascal/delphi and my programming skills are not very good (mainly writing java code for applications, php code for websites, databases, small c++ programs, other things we play around with at university), and time is always an issue.

btw: i've tried to work on the translation to german (version 3536rc2 lang.ini). however, even though i add an entry (like 'cpanel.407=Multimedia Eigenschaften') to the text file, i don't see any changes, even after restarting the mixer and switching languages. I've followed the instructions on the website carefully. is this a bug?

thanks for this great driver, eugene, and (if you did) for reading this.

NightBreed · Dec 5, 2003, 08:25 PM

I've been creating a soundfont from an old kurzweil k2000 and so far the soundfont has reached a size of 150 megs and it loads fine with the kx drivers. It maybe due to me keeping the samples sizes rather small, or maybe just luck

.. I have 512megs of ram in my machine, that could be the reason for a large font being usable. I've found that ending alot of memory processes that arent needed before loading a large font seems to work.

Welp, Peace..........

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Dec 5, 2003, 09:37 PM

>> 150 megs

this might depend on your OS

>> sf button, preset selection

I have these stuff in my 'todo'

>> translation

well... in general, it should work provided you add the line and re-rar the skin file
don't use solid archives, double check everything, use WinRar 2.0 (not 3.0)

/Eugene

Game3DFreak · Dec 7, 2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

I've been creating a soundfont from an old kurzweil k2000 and so far the soundfont has reached a size of 150 megs and it loads fine with the kx drivers. It maybe due to me keeping the samples sizes rather small, or maybe just luck .. I have 512megs of ram in my machine, that could be the reason for a large font being usable. I've found that ending alot of memory processes that arent needed before loading a large font seems to work.

i've 512 mb too (winxp). no unnecessary services loaded, but doesn't work. never mind, i'll wait for production version of megafont ;-D

Quote:

>> sf button, preset selection
I have these stuff in my 'todo'

great! only one of these 'user-is-too-lazy-to-click-two-times' problems anyway, so no hurry needed.

Quote:

>> translation well... in general, it should work provided you add the line and re-rar the skin file don't use solid archives, double check everything, use WinRar 2.0 (not 3.0)

thanks. you were right, i'm using winrar 3.0 (although without solid archiving), and that's the problem.
i've used it to create a zip archive instead of rar, and now it works.
i've already finished the new translation and send it to the appropriate e-mail address, you should receive it soon.

btw: what is 'don't smooth amounts' (it's in driver settings)? since i don't know what it means, i can't translate it correctly (but would like to). i can't find any information about this on your website.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Dec 7, 2003, 10:13 PM

>> 'don't smooth amounts'

well... that's not so complex, but certain sources use this word ('smooth')
in general, it means that the sampling rate converters perform better resampling, but introduce a higher latency...
'smooth' -- the sound data is 'interpolated', 'smoothed'

that's it

it seems I've got your message

/E

ani007 · Jan 13, 2004, 07:46 AM

Hi everyone,
I have the answer. Follow the link below and you'll be able to load soundfonts upto 384MB on ur win xp!! It clearly mentions what u have to do with the registry settings!!

http://www.oui.com.br/nando/essays/a...03audigy07.htm

Enjoy!!

Sture · Jan 14, 2004, 02:38 PM

This sounds very interesting, but please check the link. It does not appear to work today...

lucioblues · Jan 14, 2004, 06:31 PM

ani007 is a lucky one. This option doesn't work for most people for kx drivers (just for creative).

ani007 · Jan 15, 2004, 06:59 AM

Hi Sture and the rest.
I sure do feel lucky! Try the settings below. I got it from the site i mentioned earlier. It works with my creative's latest audigy drivers. I haven't tried it with the kx drivers. If i find other options i'll post them.
Good luck !

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\Paged Pool Size

The default value is 0x00000000, set the value to 0xffffffff

lucioblues · Jan 15, 2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lucioblues
ani007 is a lucky one. This option doesn't work for most people for kx drivers (just for creative).

He's using creative drivers....

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jan 15, 2004, 10:40 PM

well, this setting usually enables to upload more soundfonts under Win2k/WinXp (I checked that)

/E

mrvomit · Feb 9, 2004, 03:29 PM

hi people!!!

1) i 've tweaked registry and it ALSO works with official driver "APS 1.6"
(though in my system is not correctly installed,it works but i can't load aps mixer ...)..they are ASIO drivers so if u need large sounfont ....

(i'm just waiting "kxdriver" supporting large soundfont,and i will switch, they are awesome..)

2)Question ..NOW ,how many Soundfont-Megs kxdriver supports?

(sorry for asking that ,but i 'm not sure about, even reading info here around..)
i think 128 ,or what..and if i load more, system crashes or what?

Game3DFreak · Feb 9, 2004, 05:45 PM

using 3537 and windows xp, the problem with the 128mb memory limit has been solved (look at forum 'general discussion').

mrvomit · Feb 9, 2004, 07:46 PM

thanks ( i was reading here as it is soundfonf section)..

i don have win xp but w2k but

..but for kx is worth the change
(its still cumplicate to use , but the features are so awesome in the documentation that its impossible to avoid to "taste" this cool driver )..

i know a lot of people interested in that problem,gonna be advertised that!!

RIV@NVX · Feb 9, 2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrvomit
thanks ( i was reading here as it is soundfonf section)..

i don have win xp but w2k but

..but for kx is worth the change
(its still cumplicate to use , but the features are so awesome in the documentation that its impossible to avoid to "taste" this cool driver )..

i know a lot of people interested in that problem,gonna be advertised that!!

I think that it works on both WinXP and Win2k, you should try before switching

Nov 23, 2003, 05:20 PM	#1
Simon Georgiou DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Tweaking XP Registry to load large SF2? Has anyone tried this?I try load a large sf2 (fluidR3:150 Mb) but seems to crash due to low pool memory...I have 512 Mb of system memory and it worked fine with the SBLive drivers..Does anyone know what values exactly should i use in the Paged pool size and None paged pool size to make this work without crushing my system all the time? __________________ Simon M. Georgiou

Nov 23, 2003, 06:04 PM	#2
lucioblues DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 81 Rep Power: 0	it does not work, search the forum.... __________________

Dec 4, 2003, 06:55 PM	#5
HunterZ DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Seattle, USA Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	The Creative drivers may "seem to allow" it, but in my experience loading such large soundfonts always causes a Blue Screen sometime between loading the soundfont and playing a MIDI song for a few seconds. __________________ Athlon XP 3200+, Gigabyte GA7N-400Pro2 Rev 2.0 (nVidia nForce2 chipset), 1 GB DDR400 (CAS 2.0, dual-channel), ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB AGP 8x, WinXP Pro SP2, DX9.0c., Logitech Z-5500 5.1 speakers

Jan 13, 2004, 07:46 AM	#12
ani007 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Try this ASAP !! I have the answer, it worksd for me !!! Hi everyone, I have the answer. Follow the link below and you'll be able to load soundfonts upto 384MB on ur win xp!! It clearly mentions what u have to do with the registry settings!! http://www.oui.com.br/nando/essays/a...03audigy07.htm Enjoy!!

Jan 14, 2004, 02:38 PM	#13
Sture DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 58 Rep Power: 0	Link above is not working This sounds very interesting, but please check the link. It does not appear to work today...

Dec 4, 2003, 01:02 PM	#3
Game3DFreak DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	According to http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...ntry/29934.asp the "NonPagedPoolQuota" can only be set to 0-128 for one process, so max available memory for soundfonts can only be 128 mb, even if you can set "NonPagedPoolSize" to a value higher than this. due to overhead (i suppose), you can only load up to ~ 116 mb; that's about the size i managed to use with the old sblive drivers too. however, since i've been using kx and altered the registry settings, it seems like i don't lose any samples anymore after playing for 5 minutes or so. i guess you would need two processes then in order to be able to allocate more memory (up to 256mb maybe) ;-)

Dec 4, 2003, 05:20 PM	#4
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	unfortunately, the driver operates in system context, that's why windows kernel cannot allow >128Mb allocations (since the same 'process' is used...) there's currently no known solution for this issue (although Creative drivers seem to allow to allocate up to 380Mb...) /E

Dec 4, 2003, 08:40 PM	#6
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75

Dec 5, 2003, 02:52 AM	#7
Game3DFreak DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	strange... on my system creative drivers (ct4760 with modified v5.12.1.383 drivers from Audigy) work perfectly even when loading large soundfonts (one giant 256mb piano soundfont - sounds very realistic but one octave too low :/) unfortunately). you have to tweak the NonPagedPoolSize setting of course. what i noticed is that the used memory isn't released even after logoff... you have to restart. and i still don't know the difference between static and dynamic using the cl drivers. is there any??? even with dynamic setting, it seems to load the complete soundfont bank. additionally, i experienced strange, random pops during playback (and sometimes even without playback). don't know where they came from. eax effects and 3d positional audio was a bit better than with older creative drivers. i'm very impressed by the kx driver. it seems to work a bit 'faster' and it's surely not as bloated as liveware, but a bit more complicated of course. it took me a while to find out how to apply effects etc. the 3d positional audio is at least as good as with the original creative labs drivers, i would even say it's a bit better. it's much easier to save and restore settings (soundfont collections, dsp settings, ...). this feature could still be improved by implementing a drop-down list on every mixer window (similarly to card selection list) = quickload function. and there could be a 'clear all soundfonts button' on the soundfont window (there is some space on the right side of the 'save collection button' g). i hope that megafont can be made compatible with these drivers. i liked it a lot, although it certainly could have been made a bit better (easier to use, fewer bugs) if development wouldn't have been discontinued. i would even try to help, but it's written in pascal/delphi and my programming skills are not very good (mainly writing java code for applications, php code for websites, databases, small c++ programs, other things we play around with at university), and time is always an issue. btw: i've tried to work on the translation to german (version 3536rc2 lang.ini). however, even though i add an entry (like 'cpanel.407=Multimedia Eigenschaften') to the text file, i don't see any changes, even after restarting the mixer and switching languages. I've followed the instructions on the website carefully. is this a bug? thanks for this great driver, eugene, and (if you did) for reading this.

Dec 5, 2003, 08:25 PM	#8
NightBreed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 380 Rep Power: 0	I've been creating a soundfont from an old kurzweil k2000 and so far the soundfont has reached a size of 150 megs and it loads fine with the kx drivers. It maybe due to me keeping the samples sizes rather small, or maybe just luck .. I have 512megs of ram in my machine, that could be the reason for a large font being usable. I've found that ending alot of memory processes that arent needed before loading a large font seems to work. Welp, Peace..........

Dec 5, 2003, 09:37 PM	#9
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	>> 150 megs this might depend on your OS >> sf button, preset selection I have these stuff in my 'todo' >> translation well... in general, it should work provided you add the line and re-rar the skin file don't use solid archives, double check everything, use WinRar 2.0 (not 3.0) /Eugene

Dec 7, 2003, 10:13 PM	#11
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	>> 'don't smooth amounts' well... that's not so complex, but certain sources use this word ('smooth') in general, it means that the sampling rate converters perform better resampling, but introduce a higher latency... 'smooth' -- the sound data is 'interpolated', 'smoothed' that's it it seems I've got your message /E

Jan 14, 2004, 06:31 PM	#14
lucioblues DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 81 Rep Power: 0	ani007 is a lucky one. This option doesn't work for most people for kx drivers (just for creative). __________________

Jan 15, 2004, 06:59 AM	#15
ani007 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Hi Sture and the rest. I sure do feel lucky! Try the settings below. I got it from the site i mentioned earlier. It works with my creative's latest audigy drivers. I haven't tried it with the kx drivers. If i find other options i'll post them. Good luck ! HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\Paged Pool Size The default value is 0x00000000, set the value to 0xffffffff

Jan 15, 2004, 10:40 PM	#17
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	well, this setting usually enables to upload more soundfonts under Win2k/WinXp (I checked that) /E

Feb 9, 2004, 03:29 PM	#18
mrvomit HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 261 Rep Power: 0	hi people!!! 1) i 've tweaked registry and it ALSO works with official driver "APS 1.6" (though in my system is not correctly installed,it works but i can't load aps mixer ...)..they are ASIO drivers so if u need large sounfont .... (i'm just waiting "kxdriver" supporting large soundfont,and i will switch, they are awesome..) 2)Question ..NOW ,how many Soundfont-Megs kxdriver supports? (sorry for asking that ,but i 'm not sure about, even reading info here around..) i think 128 ,or what..and if i load more, system crashes or what?

Feb 9, 2004, 05:45 PM	#19
Game3DFreak DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	using 3537 and windows xp, the problem with the 128mb memory limit has been solved (look at forum 'general discussion').

Feb 9, 2004, 07:46 PM	#20
mrvomit HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 261 Rep Power: 0	thanks ( i was reading here as it is soundfonf section).. i don have win xp but w2k but ..but for kx is worth the change (its still cumplicate to use , but the features are so awesome in the documentation that its impossible to avoid to "taste" this cool driver ).. i know a lot of people interested in that problem,gonna be advertised that!!