Jimbo_Bones

Greetings all, first post for me....

I've loaded the kX Drivers and configured two SB Lives in my PC. I've connected two MIDI keyboards as follows;

SBLive #1 - Keyboard: Akai AX-80 MIDI Channel: 1 Connected via: Game Port

SBLive #2 - Keyboard: Roland D-5 MIDI Channel: 2 Connected via: MIDI In on daughter board

My goal for loading the kX Drivers was to be able to play both keyboards simultaneous using the two different sounds. For example, piano on KB 1 and organ on KB 2 using the same SoundFont loaded to each sound card or perhaps a different SoundFont loaded to the second sound card. I'm trying to do this using Cakewalk Home Studio 2004 for playback and recording purposes. I'm setting up the keyboards as follows;

KB1 - MIDI In: 1 Out: kX Synth Channel: 1:SoundFont Device Bank: 1-SF: 8RealGS10 Patch: Piano

KB2 - MIDI In: 2 Out: kX Synth (2) Channel: 2:SoundFont Device Bank: 2-SF: 8RealGS10 Patch: Organ

For some reason I cannot get both keyboards to use their respective channels, sound cards, etc. and produce the two sounds simultaneously. I can get sound output from card #1 playing the proper patch (piano) but when I use Keyboard #2 it outputs sound using the same patch as channel 1 (piano). If I click on the MIDI Track for keyboard #2 I get no output whatsoever.

Maybe I'm missing something really basic because I thought this would be the biggest benefit of having two sound cards loaded in one PC.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this situation,

Jimbo

Jim Henry

I don't know anything about Cakewalk. I'd suggest you use MIDI-OX to sort this out. (Free at MIDI-OX )

The advantages of using MIDI-OX are:
1) I know it can do what you want
2) It makes what is going on a lot more visible

You don't need two soundcards to do what you want. One SB Live can provide up to 32 different instruments on 2 MIDI Out devices of 16 channels each. Using 2 cards might make it a little easier to see what's going on while you get comfortable with all this.

When you get MIDI-OX installed, learn how to setup one keyboard to play one soundcard. Then add the second keyboard and route it to the other soundcard. Practice using different channel routings. The possibilities in MIDI-OX are almost endless. You'll learn a bunch about MIDI by doing this.

If you want to have some real fun with two MIDI keyboards check out my website The Miditzer (Hint: What you are trying to do is wimpy, wimpy, wimpy ) For your setup you'll need to use MIDI-OX to put the two keyboards out on one device, a Midi Yoke (also at the MIDI-OX site), on channels 1 and 2 respectively. Use the Midi Yoke as the MIDI Input to the Miditzer.

Jim Henry

TravelRec.

Hi!

Since SB-Live! cards have almost 2 MIDI interfaces onboard (GamePort [COLOR=orange]AND[/COLOR] AUD_EXT) called UART1 and UART2 it should be possible to play 2 different keys on one card with different sounds. So take your sequencer (like cubase), make two MIDI-tracks / activate for the first track UART1 as input, for the second UART2 / load soundfont(s) into the synth(s) and choose for every track an other MIDI-channel and sound and play your keys - this should basically work (not tested yet, but it seems obvious). If you want to use both of your cards for inputting MIDI, be sure that all MIDI-channel-routing in your sequencer is right and not doubled or so (check all available ports for activity).

Greetings!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

TravelRec.

Hi!

Tested the second UART successfully. It´s necessary to apply a small interface between AUD_EXT and the MIDI port to buffer and decouple the MIDI signals. I´ll post the circuitry next time to www.electricstart.de in the electronics section (if there is interest for).

Greetings!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

meroveus

Please Mr TravelRec, post the circuit to allow two MIDI UARTS.

TravelRec.

Okay...

I think I can finish it tomorrow in the evening and then I´ll post it. Sorry, but low time here . NOTE: This version of MIDI-interface works at gameport (to drive MIDI out and to decouple MIDI in over an opto-coupler, ´cause it´s not recommended to wire external synths directly to the card!) and as AUD_EXT expandation for the 2nd UART. Later 5.1 and Audigy models have the AUD_EXT connector. For cards without AUD_EXT I have no solution now to get the second UART working; except someone can tell me the connection on these card models. So if you know where the 2nd UART on earlier models or on AudigyII cards is: please let me know!!!

CU here!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

meroveus

TravelRec,
I don't have an A2 or 5.1 Live, but it seems I have the same card as you - a Live with the AUD_EXT connector.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you? With 2 UARTS, that means you can have two MIDI ins and two MIDI outs going to and from the card? If so, that is wonderful! And just after I bought a 4x4 MIDI interface (sigh). But not to worry, I have been finding out you can never have too many MIDI inputs!

TravelRec.

Yo!

Yes, that´s correct and yes, that´s wonderful! The new interface is online - so visit www.electricstart.de again for download the pic with info. Happy soldering and good luck!

Greetings!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

meroveus

Thanks TravelRec!
This is VERY interesting and makes sense, for I have heard that Creative's add-on SPDIF I/O card for the Live also has MIDI ports which can be used separately from the gameport MIDI.

I am presently building a kit which attaches to your gameport, giving 1 x IN, 1 x THRU, 2 x OUTs.
Does this mean I can buy another kit and attach it to my AUD_EXT pins?

BTW, it seems you have an Audigy. Don't know why I thought you had a Live.

dj_stick

live (with aud_Ext)and audigy are technically the same conenction wise… cept audigy has the UART connected seperately(replaced w/ firewire)

__________________

TravelRec.

Hi!


Aahem... with the kit that is shown @ my site you can get 1 IN / 1 OUT and, with modification, 1 THRU if you want. This kit you can attach to gameport (pins like shown in the pic) and to AUD_EXT (other pinout) so you have the 2 UARTS complete. This means 2 different INs and 2 different OUTs - not more or less.

Thanks dj for clarification!

BTW, my config is shown in my profile under each post of me - so Audigy SB0090...

__________________
Always take a look behind.

meroveus

OK, thanks TravelRec, I'll build your circuit as well and test it out.
But i can't help thinking there must be some differences between one with over a hundred components and one containing less than a dozen!

I have had several thoughts.
-It may be possible to build your circuit in a large D backshell.
-Are there any pins of the Live/Audigy's gameport which are unused? If so, the MIDI pins of the AUD_EXT connector could be attached to these.
-Maybe fit two of your circuits in a backshell? Hmm....

Cheers

TravelRec.

Quite sure - the price is the difference... , but not only - I think, if you can tune a thing to your desires, why not?! What do you want to have more?

Why not? You also could use the unused pins of 4050 to drive 2 THRU connectors (over 2x 270R to 5P) on each unit, or something like that...

Don´t know - if so, you may get incompatibility with joysticks or gamepads if they are attached to these pins...

Do so if you want - and send us pictures!

Greetings and happy week-end!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

meroveus

Hi TravelRec,

the more I think about this, the more i have decided i will go with SMD components, which means making a small circuit board to fit inside a large backshell. It is scary since I have never soldered SMD components before!

However, I have to find a site which can tell me which gameport pins are unsused.
According to your diagram, i need 4 spare pins. If need be, i will forget about compatability with joysticks.

What type is the capacitor you have shown? If it is not available in SMD, can I substitute it with another type?

Why is Pin2 of MIDI IN not connected to ground?
Shouldn't ALL unused MIDI pins be shorted to ground?

What does 5P mean in your diagram?

What does connection 1/2 mean, in upper right of your diagram? Does this mean you can connect to either pin1 or 2?

Could you please do another diagram showing layout with an additional 2 MIDI THRUs? ( I'm sorry for this, but my electronics knowledge is limited to soldering! )

I am presently searching for a circuit routing software I can use for the board.
What is your recommendation for a free or limited-time autorouter?
Will Target2001 do autorouting?
Do you recommend a double-sided design, or just a single layer?

Because these will be so tiny, dozens will fit on a single blank board, thus etching dozens of these boards will be just as easy as doing a single one.
Because i will have so many spares, I can send you several if you wish, and give the rest away.

BTW, I posted my queries here instead of a PM, so that those who also choose to make this circuit will receive your answers.

Breathlessly awaiting your replies!

dj_stick

Good move, i'm pretty sure there are more than a few people who would like to be able to do this

__________________

TravelRec.

Hi!

Sorry, I´ve forgotten that I´m familiar with electronics and so I use some terms in my descriptions that are very regular in the electronics scene but they can confuse you a bit... .
So, clarification now:

5P is the synonymous for 5 Volts positive (so the power supply upper end)

Pin 1/2 at AUD_EXT are at the same potential 5P so you can use 1 or 2

For MIDI THRU: disconnect pin 5 of 4050 from GND (blue) and connect it with Pin 3 of 4050. Wire an additional resistor of 270 ohms between pin 4 of 4050 and pin 4 of the THRU socket. Wire a second resistor of 270 ohms between 5P (red) and pin 5 of the THRU socket. Connect pin 2 of THRU socket with GND (blue). That´s it. You can repeat this with pin 7 of 4050 (like pin 5) and 6 (like 4) with a 2nd THRU socket. With this config the THRUs repeat the input signal. If you want to repeat computers output signal instead, connect pin 5 (7) of 4050 with pin 9 of 4050. BTW: I´ve forgotten to paint a point between pin 9 and 10 of 4050; this is a connection! I´ll correct this soon.

The capacitor is a tantalum SMD type / available in every good component store.

Software... yes, Target2001 works with autorouting (unlimited) but you have to create a circuit plan before. I´ve never tested this, ´cause I make my PCB layouts out of my brain

Single layer would be fine (and is easier to process), specially with SMD parts (so you can do wire-bridges at the non-component-side), my project runs fine on a multihole universal pcb (non-smd!), it´s just a working prototype

Stay connected!

TravelRec.

P.S. minor changes in diagram @ electricstart... (10 p.m.)

__________________
Always take a look behind.

dj_stick

you know what travelrec? i think im gonna build some of the things you have described on your site, i wouldn't mind having more, higher quality inputs, and my school has the PCB software/hardware setup to make PCBs

__________________

meroveus

Wow! Thank you, TravelRec. You've basically answered all my questions.
I might go for one THRU and a duplicated OUT.

I won't use Target2001 though, cuz it's all in German. There seem to plenty of others though, in English.
Because the circuit is so simple, there shouldn't be any hassles for auto-routers.
And i guess the layout is not critical anyway, given there are no high frequencies involved in the circuit.

Time to start buying the ingredients then.

dj_stick

on his website there is a link to the english version of target2001

__________________

meroveus

Cool. thx.

dj_stick

i think it is under the analog to spdif page somewhere (thats where i got it)

__________________

TravelRec.

Yo!

Yes, that´s right - had the link from another user here. Good luck with building the things. I think I can go online once a day for questions and tips. Think I have to spend more time with the expandations, some interested people here !

Greetings!

TravelRec.

__________________
Always take a look behind.