sfman32.dll and Cubase SX patch names

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Mar 6, 2004, 02:22 AM

hi there

after some time spent on hacking sfman32.dll and fighting SoundFont problems with Cubase SX, -- I've finished a custom version of sfman32.dll that should try to fix the patchname issues

[what is it]:

this is a replacement for the original soundfont manager provided by Creative Labs / Microsoft

[technical details]:

if someone of you are familiar with Sonar/Cubase programmers, please let them know: they need to re-write their soundfont support and strictly follow the Sfman SDK!

the Cubase SX patch name issue is caused by incorrect Cubase initialization code (Cubase programmers will find the details in the debug log)
Sonar is based on an outdated version of the SDK, due to some reason it tries to unload all the soundfonts on start-up (except the one found in the bank 0), and it doesn't handle the 'changed/unchanged' flag for IsMidibankUsed message properly
also, Sonar assumes midi bank 0 is always occupied by a GM-compatible soundfont -- and doesn't wish to ask the driver about the presets located in the bank #0...

and, finally, the 'original' version of sfman32.dll provided by Creative is 'too closely' integrated with the Creative soundfont engine -- and this is bad, since sfman32.dll should not rely on any particular soundfont provider...

[link and installation]

http://kx.maincore.nl/beta/sfman32.dll
this should work with -any- version of kX
note that under WinXP you will need to overwrite the original file in 'safe' mode (otherwise Windows will automatically restore the file!)
you can also try to copy this version of sfman32.dll to the folder your audio application is installed to

[compatibility]

this version was tested with Sonar3, Cubase SX and Vienna -- and worked more or less fine

note that this file is BETA and is provided mainly for testing purposes
a similar file might be included with the 3538
the original Creative drivers are NOT compatible with this version of sfman32.dll (due to the fact CL drivers don't follow their own SFMan32 SDK!

)

feel free to post any comments and bug reports

/Eugene

dungle · Mar 6, 2004, 12:45 PM

thanks,
it seems to work, I can load banks via the device manager and/or kx sf load window.
Patch names work correctly. I am however, having trouble selecting the bank in cubase. (have I missed something?).
Reloading the cubase project seems to restore the sf states correctly, but not the bank selection it would seem.
btw; what is the difference between synth1 and synth2?
(It seems possible to load a bank in both, or only one and not the other). (does it extend the available sf sample space? (32M per synth) or just polyphony (64 voice per synth)?
Theyre basic questions I know, but they help to understand what can be achieved.
cheers

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Mar 7, 2004, 12:45 AM

synth1 & synth 2 simply use two separate sf2 pools
as well as separate channels
that is, you get 16x2=32 separate midi channels

that's it

Cubase may not handle multiple sf2 devices properly due to internal bugs

/E

NightBreed · Mar 7, 2004, 07:00 PM

The new sfman32 also works with Alive.

Great job Eugene, thanks

Peace...

dungle · Mar 8, 2004, 10:03 AM

hi guys,
following up my last post,
anyone know how to switch sf banks in cubase sx?
thanks

Lex Nahumury · Mar 8, 2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dungle
hi guys,
following up my last post,
anyone know how to switch sf banks in cubase sx?
thanks

Use multiples of 128 to select a bank followed by a patch change.
That is; 128 will select bank 0 etc...(IIRC).
You can make a Cubase script for 'Midi device manager' to ease things,
but ofcourse you wont see any SF patch names.

/LeMury

NightBreed · Mar 9, 2004, 02:33 AM

>> of course you wont see any SF patch names

with the new sfman32 you do see the patch names. Im using CubaseSX 2.01 and they show up now using this dll

peace

Lex Nahumury · Mar 9, 2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NightBreed
>> of course you wont see any SF patch names

with the new sfman32 you do see the patch names. Im using CubaseSX 2.01 and they show up now using this dll

Yes, I know it does

Then I misunderstood your question regarding bank select.
(still do btw)

/LeMury

peejunk · Mar 11, 2004, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Gavrilov
note that under WinXP you will need to overwrite the original file in 'safe' mode (otherwise Windows will automatically restore the file!)

You don't have to go to safe mode to do that. Windows keep the files for restoration in 'dllcache' folder, inside 'system32' folder. So just overwrite the one in 'dllcache' before you overwrite the one in 'system32'. This way there's no risk that Windows will restore the old dll at some point in future (if they get a fuxored boot up, or you do a system restoral or something)

cheers.

Way2Loud · Mar 12, 2004, 10:06 AM

Hi all!

I placed the new sfman32 in the Cubase SX1 folder and it works OK, the patchnames show up.
However, when I load more than one SF, say in bank 0, 1 and 2, I can only access bank 0.
The other sounfontbanks are present in the inspectors dropdown-list, but it's impossible to see their patchnames and to use them.
Anyone knows how to switch between banks in the inspector in Cubase SX?
Please explain again about "multiples of 128" LeMury, do you mean that one should use a CC-code to change banks?
The soundfonts used in my humble experiments are small, less than 10 Mb total.

Thanks again for your great work, I use the driver all the time!

Lex Nahumury · Mar 12, 2004, 11:21 AM

>> when I load more than one SF, say in bank 0, 1 and 2, I can only access bank 0.
>>The other sounfontbanks are present in the inspectors dropdown-list, but it's impossible to see their
>>patchnames and to use them.

Well, first; I really think it's wise to put that sfman32.dll in your \system32 folder like Eugene discribed.
(But hey,....stranger things have happened)

Second; If you still can't see or select other loaded sf banks then the one in bank0,
try this;
Clear all sf, then load a 'standard' GM sf like CT4mbGM.SF2 into Bank 0.
Those standard sf banks use so called 'variation banks' using bank 0 to bank 14 or something.
Now that 'standard' GM bank (loaded in bank 0) will act like a placeholder for
your other banks that you load in bank 1 and up.
Now you can see your patchnames and select them.
It will look weird since all your sf banks are now "child" of that GM bank, but it works.

Granted, it's not elegant, but this seems to be limitations of the sfman32.dll approach.

/LeMury

PS:
You can always try our kXSFi ( found in this section) wich hasn't that limitation.
Make sure you use the right sfman32.dll version if you use kXSFi.

Way2Loud · Mar 12, 2004, 12:42 PM

Thanks LeMury

I'll install the files the proper way and try again, perhaps that will solve the problem.
I used the Creative 8Mb-font as the first SF in bank 0 in my test though........

thanks/W2L

PS: Do you know when the next "really stable" kx-version is ready for download?
I'm still using 3534 (under WinXP, 2GHz/512Mb,SB0222) and thats very reliable, but some of the
latest plugins would be nice to try.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Mar 12, 2004, 11:30 PM

>> That is; 128 will select bank 0 etc...

you can switch the kX Driver into a different mode and use 'normal' bank numbering method
[open 'compatibility' dialog box]

>> "really stable" kx-version is ready for download?

3537 seems to be the 'latest stable' release

/E

france666reds · Apr 7, 2004, 10:30 AM

i agree with WAY2Loud

Itsn't necessary to put the Eugene's Sfman 10k in the system32 folder, only put it in the CUBASE SX2 folder and all is OK.

CUBASE sx2
Win XP home SP1
PIV 1,6Ghz
512 MBddram
Audigy1 platinum
etc etc

Mirko13 · Apr 15, 2004, 03:51 AM

what am I doing wrong??
I have copied the sfman32.dll file in cubase directory and windows system32 dir,
and in kx dir.
I cant load soundbank in MIDI device manager in cubase sx2.
i can use kx synth2 as outpit onley in track but not in midi devide manager.
when i use chn: 1 then i see soundfont name under it, and if i use chn: any then i can choose bnk and prg. but no matter what i hear no sound but i have signal.
I have imported sound font in kx and routed synth in dsp.
please help.

Daniel Drummond · Apr 15, 2004, 05:13 AM

Try resetting your dsp settings and resetting global and card configurations...

NightBreed · Apr 15, 2004, 08:11 AM

Try putting the "SFMS32.DLL" from the kx install directory into the cubaseSX folder as well. This was something touched on at the EMU site.

Mirko13 · Apr 16, 2004, 03:09 AM

It work's now when i set the routing from Fxbus2 and 2 to epilog out 2 and 3.
before it was routed to epilog asio 0 and 1 ad that did not work and i dont know why, 'cause I've set the driver in cubase to Kx ASIO.

Lex Nahumury · Apr 16, 2004, 01:58 PM

>>It work's now when i set the routing from Fxbus2 and 2 to epilog out 2 and 3.
>>before it was routed to epilog asio 0 and 1 ad that did not work and i dont know why,
>> 'cause I've set the driver in cubase to Kx ASIO.

The asio0 ~ asio15 on Epilog are the ASIO Recording Inputs, not physical outputs of your soundcard!
That's why you didn't hear any midi output.

So if you want to hear and record the midi synth, you have to route to Epilog's Front/Rear output,
and also to an asio recording pair like asio0/1 on Epilog.

/LeMury

Mirko13 · Apr 16, 2004, 05:22 PM

Thanks. Just did that and it works.
But I just can't get this soundbanks to work.
Whena I load more than one sundbank i cant even see the name of it.
if i select chn: any than i can select bnk and prg. but no mater what number there is no sound. if i choose chn: 1-16 thare is nothing else i can choose and also no sound.
please help.

captain_rusty · Apr 26, 2004, 11:05 PM

I'm amazed!!!

I've been using SX 1.0 and just got used to the fact that the patch names/accessibility seemed to be weird - was sure it was my fault...

Can't wait to try this new sfman32... thank you Eugene - you've made my day

Mar 6, 2004, 02:22 AM	#1
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	sfman32.dll and Cubase SX patch names hi there after some time spent on hacking sfman32.dll and fighting SoundFont problems with Cubase SX, -- I've finished a custom version of sfman32.dll that should try to fix the patchname issues [what is it]: this is a replacement for the original soundfont manager provided by Creative Labs / Microsoft [technical details]: if someone of you are familiar with Sonar/Cubase programmers, please let them know: they need to re-write their soundfont support and strictly follow the Sfman SDK! the Cubase SX patch name issue is caused by incorrect Cubase initialization code (Cubase programmers will find the details in the debug log) Sonar is based on an outdated version of the SDK, due to some reason it tries to unload all the soundfonts on start-up (except the one found in the bank 0), and it doesn't handle the 'changed/unchanged' flag for IsMidibankUsed message properly also, Sonar assumes midi bank 0 is always occupied by a GM-compatible soundfont -- and doesn't wish to ask the driver about the presets located in the bank #0... and, finally, the 'original' version of sfman32.dll provided by Creative is 'too closely' integrated with the Creative soundfont engine -- and this is bad, since sfman32.dll should not rely on any particular soundfont provider... [link and installation] http://kx.maincore.nl/beta/sfman32.dll this should work with -any- version of kX note that under WinXP you will need to overwrite the original file in 'safe' mode (otherwise Windows will automatically restore the file!) you can also try to copy this version of sfman32.dll to the folder your audio application is installed to [compatibility] this version was tested with Sonar3, Cubase SX and Vienna -- and worked more or less fine note that this file is BETA and is provided mainly for testing purposes a similar file might be included with the 3538 the original Creative drivers are NOT compatible with this version of sfman32.dll (due to the fact CL drivers don't follow their own SFMan32 SDK! ) feel free to post any comments and bug reports /Eugene

Apr 15, 2004, 05:13 AM	#16
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Try resetting your dsp settings and resetting global and card configurations... __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Apr 26, 2004, 11:05 PM	#21
captain_rusty DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deepest France Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	I'm amazed!!! I've been using SX 1.0 and just got used to the fact that the patch names/accessibility seemed to be weird - was sure it was my fault... Can't wait to try this new sfman32... thank you Eugene - you've made my day __________________ Can I record my solo album with a Soundblaster Live!Value??? P4 2.4GHz, 256Mb, XP Home, SBLive!Value, Yamaha MG10/2, Toneworks Pandora

Mar 6, 2004, 12:45 PM	#2
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	thanks, it seems to work, I can load banks via the device manager and/or kx sf load window. Patch names work correctly. I am however, having trouble selecting the bank in cubase. (have I missed something?). Reloading the cubase project seems to restore the sf states correctly, but not the bank selection it would seem. btw; what is the difference between synth1 and synth2? (It seems possible to load a bank in both, or only one and not the other). (does it extend the available sf sample space? (32M per synth) or just polyphony (64 voice per synth)? Theyre basic questions I know, but they help to understand what can be achieved. cheers

Mar 7, 2004, 12:45 AM	Thread Starter #3
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	synth1 & synth 2 simply use two separate sf2 pools as well as separate channels that is, you get 16x2=32 separate midi channels that's it Cubase may not handle multiple sf2 devices properly due to internal bugs /E

Mar 7, 2004, 07:00 PM	#4
NightBreed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 380 Rep Power: 0	The new sfman32 also works with Alive. Great job Eugene, thanks Peace...

Mar 8, 2004, 10:03 AM	#5
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	hi guys, following up my last post, anyone know how to switch sf banks in cubase sx? thanks

Mar 9, 2004, 02:33 AM	#7
NightBreed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 380 Rep Power: 0	>> of course you wont see any SF patch names with the new sfman32 you do see the patch names. Im using CubaseSX 2.01 and they show up now using this dll peace

Mar 12, 2004, 10:06 AM	#10
Way2Loud DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Hi all! I placed the new sfman32 in the Cubase SX1 folder and it works OK, the patchnames show up. However, when I load more than one SF, say in bank 0, 1 and 2, I can only access bank 0. The other sounfontbanks are present in the inspectors dropdown-list, but it's impossible to see their patchnames and to use them. Anyone knows how to switch between banks in the inspector in Cubase SX? Please explain again about "multiples of 128" LeMury, do you mean that one should use a CC-code to change banks? The soundfonts used in my humble experiments are small, less than 10 Mb total. Thanks again for your great work, I use the driver all the time!

Mar 12, 2004, 11:21 AM	#11
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,930 Rep Power: 62	>> when I load more than one SF, say in bank 0, 1 and 2, I can only access bank 0. >>The other sounfontbanks are present in the inspectors dropdown-list, but it's impossible to see their >>patchnames and to use them. Well, first; I really think it's wise to put that sfman32.dll in your \system32 folder like Eugene discribed. (But hey,....stranger things have happened) Second; If you still can't see or select other loaded sf banks then the one in bank0, try this; Clear all sf, then load a 'standard' GM sf like CT4mbGM.SF2 into Bank 0. Those standard sf banks use so called 'variation banks' using bank 0 to bank 14 or something. Now that 'standard' GM bank (loaded in bank 0) will act like a placeholder for your other banks that you load in bank 1 and up. Now you can see your patchnames and select them. It will look weird since all your sf banks are now "child" of that GM bank, but it works. Granted, it's not elegant, but this seems to be limitations of the sfman32.dll approach. /LeMury PS: You can always try our kXSFi ( found in this section) wich hasn't that limitation. Make sure you use the right sfman32.dll version if you use kXSFi.

Mar 12, 2004, 12:42 PM	#12
Way2Loud DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Thanks LeMury I'll install the files the proper way and try again, perhaps that will solve the problem. I used the Creative 8Mb-font as the first SF in bank 0 in my test though........ thanks/W2L PS: Do you know when the next "really stable" kx-version is ready for download? I'm still using 3534 (under WinXP, 2GHz/512Mb,SB0222) and thats very reliable, but some of the latest plugins would be nice to try.

Mar 12, 2004, 11:30 PM	Thread Starter #13
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	>> That is; 128 will select bank 0 etc... you can switch the kX Driver into a different mode and use 'normal' bank numbering method [open 'compatibility' dialog box] >> "really stable" kx-version is ready for download? 3537 seems to be the 'latest stable' release /E

Apr 7, 2004, 10:30 AM	#14
france666reds let the music playing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: italy Posts: 36 Rep Power: 0	i agree with WAY2Loud Itsn't necessary to put the Eugene's Sfman 10k in the system32 folder, only put it in the CUBASE SX2 folder and all is OK. CUBASE sx2 Win XP home SP1 PIV 1,6Ghz 512 MBddram Audigy1 platinum etc etc

Apr 15, 2004, 03:51 AM	#15
Mirko13 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	what am I doing wrong?? I have copied the sfman32.dll file in cubase directory and windows system32 dir, and in kx dir. I cant load soundbank in MIDI device manager in cubase sx2. i can use kx synth2 as outpit onley in track but not in midi devide manager. when i use chn: 1 then i see soundfont name under it, and if i use chn: any then i can choose bnk and prg. but no matter what i hear no sound but i have signal. I have imported sound font in kx and routed synth in dsp. please help.

Apr 15, 2004, 08:11 AM	#17
NightBreed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 380 Rep Power: 0	Try putting the "SFMS32.DLL" from the kx install directory into the cubaseSX folder as well. This was something touched on at the EMU site.

Apr 16, 2004, 03:09 AM	#18
Mirko13 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	It work's now when i set the routing from Fxbus2 and 2 to epilog out 2 and 3. before it was routed to epilog asio 0 and 1 ad that did not work and i dont know why, 'cause I've set the driver in cubase to Kx ASIO.

Apr 16, 2004, 01:58 PM	#19
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,930 Rep Power: 62	>>It work's now when i set the routing from Fxbus2 and 2 to epilog out 2 and 3. >>before it was routed to epilog asio 0 and 1 ad that did not work and i dont know why, >> 'cause I've set the driver in cubase to Kx ASIO. The asio0 ~ asio15 on Epilog are the ASIO Recording Inputs, not physical outputs of your soundcard! That's why you didn't hear any midi output. So if you want to hear and record the midi synth, you have to route to Epilog's Front/Rear output, and also to an asio recording pair like asio0/1 on Epilog. /LeMury

Apr 16, 2004, 05:22 PM	#20
Mirko13 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Thanks. Just did that and it works. But I just can't get this soundbanks to work. Whena I load more than one sundbank i cant even see the name of it. if i select chn: any than i can select bnk and prg. but no mater what number there is no sound. if i choose chn: 1-16 thare is nothing else i can choose and also no sound. please help.