Differences between KXi and kX Control

BiCho · Apr 15, 2004, 06:16 PM

I don't know if there is any difference at all, since the only point is sending midi messages to the modules in the dsp window.

Besides, Kx Control could be far more stable...since it only uses system midi data

cheers
BiCho

Lex Nahumury · Apr 16, 2004, 01:11 AM

>>I don't know if there is any difference at all,..

-kXi is a VSTi plugin wich can be used *only* in a VSTi compatible host (ofcourse).
Besides automation, It can also save/load complete DSP setups along with (for example) a Cubase Project.

-kX Control, is a "normal" 'internal midi port', and thus can be used by all midi sequencers/apps for automation purposes.

/LeMury

BiCho · Apr 16, 2004, 06:36 PM

so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song? maybe a system exclusive with the file name?

that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI, I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet).

Thanks for your response LeMury, I'm really glad that you are working for kX since your tools have made the system more 'musician friendly'.

any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers? That's the feature I miss the most...

I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud...

keep up the great work

BiCho

Lex Nahumury · Apr 17, 2004, 02:11 AM

>>so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song?

Just load 'kXi', open its editor, click the bleu button. Now you can edit/save the current DSP settings.
On project re-opening, kXi will auto re-load your (previously saved) DSP settings.

>>..that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI,
>> I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet).

Ehhh,...kXSFi already automaticly saves and re-loads SoundFont files settings used in your project.
No need for sysex. Just human readable file path names.

>>any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers?
>>That's the feature I miss the most...

What do you mean? 'CC91 Reverb Send' and 'CC93 Chorus Send' are already implemented
and fully functional in the kX drivers and according to the SoundFont spec's.

>>I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud.

I'm not sure what you mean with sync, but I simply use kXi or kX Control for sending synced rhytmic
midi patterns to DSP parameters.

/LeMury

BiCho · Apr 17, 2004, 06:31 AM

>>so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song?

>>>>Just load 'kXi', open its editor, click the bleu button. Now you can edit/save the current DSP settings.
On project re-opening, kXi will auto re-load your (previously saved) DSP settings.

great. i will try it tonight. thanks for the tip

>>..that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI,
>> I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet).

>>>>Ehhh,...kXSFi already automaticly saves and re-loads SoundFont files settings used in your project.
No need for sysex. Just human readable file path names.

wow! neat

>>any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers?
>>That's the feature I miss the most...

>>>>What do you mean? 'CC91 Reverb Send' and 'CC93 Chorus Send' are already implemented
and fully functional in the kX drivers and according to the SoundFont spec's.

they aren't. the 20% that was assigned is not the value the usual Creative drivers have. this number must be set higher or else they are quite obsolete.

the result is that there is no way you could use control send effects via CCs for each MIDI channel. the only way is using the kX router but i haven't found yet a way to send CCs to it, since the kX automation window only shows me the controles for the modules on the DSP window.

actually there's a bug in the kX Router too, check this post, http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...threadid=43429

>>I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud.

>>>>I'm not sure what you mean with sync, but I simply use kXi or kX Control for sending synced rhytmic
midi patterns to DSP parameters.

/LeMury

Lex Nahumury · Apr 18, 2004, 04:59 AM

>>they aren't. the 20% that was assigned is not the value the usual Creative drivers have.
Probably not, however; kX behaves as defined in the SoundFont standard.
Creative doesn't

>>the result is that there is no way you could use control send effects via CCs for each MIDI channel.
Not true. See also;
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...5&pagenumber=3
(check Max. M's post there)

Eitherway;
kX's CC91 and CC93 (and per midi channel GM mode) works just fine once you understand the above,
so I don't think this implementation will change in the future. (But who knows..

)

/LeMury

BiCho · Apr 18, 2004, 05:35 AM

well, actually my problem is not leakage, MIDI CCs 91+93 simply don't work, i have to move the slider manually in the routing so it sends signal to bus 13 or 14... and the sends for device wave 0/1 (as well as ASIO Channels) get stuck to the top as soon as i touch them

BiCho · Dec 20, 2004, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMury

Just load 'kXi', open its editor, click the bleu button. Now you can edit/save the current DSP settings.
On project re-opening, kXi will auto re-load your (previously saved) DSP settings.

When is it supposed to load the DSP? as soon as I open the project from within my host? nope. (I'm using Plogue Bidule). If I press the blue button, it simply sends me to the automation panel, but it doesn't load a new DSP...

Anyway, I am able to use MIDI via kXi to control one of the devices, so the plugin seems to work. I wish i could choose which device to control...

by the way, I'm using 3538g

thanks!!

Lex Nahumury · Dec 20, 2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

If I press the blue button, it simply sends me to the automation panel, ...

Yep, and on that automation page you'll find Save/load buttons!!!!!!!
Once saved, the whole bunch is reloaded at project reload.
(This includes DSP setup provided that you checked the DSP box during save..duh)

This works with most commonly used VST(i) hosts.
Donno if Bidule does.
If Bidule is following VST SDK specs it should (which it probably does).

IIRC, Multi-card support for kXi is on Eugene's todo list I think.

/LeMury

**dj_stick** · Dec 20, 2004, 09:58 AM

mmm Logic doesn't like kX VSTisâ€¦ and on this current re-format of my machine it doesn't like Kontakt eitherâ€¦

Lex Nahumury · Dec 20, 2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

mmm Logic doesn't like kX VSTisâ€¦ and on this current re-format of my machine it doesn't like Kontakt eitherâ€¦

Could you even be more vague!
".. doesn't like kX VSTis.." doesn't say much now does it?

/LeMury

**dj_stick** · Dec 20, 2004, 10:48 AM

no it doesn't sorryâ€¦ what i'm saying is that Logic doesn't show it in the list of VSTi

Lex Nahumury · Dec 20, 2004, 10:53 AM

>>what i'm saying is that Logic doesn't show it in the list of VSTi
Which VSTis don't show up?
kXi, kXSFi, ..Halion? All of them? Any others?

**dj_stick** · Dec 20, 2004, 11:11 AM

some do, some don't, it's strange

none of the kX ones have ever shown up, but Kontakt used to, but on this install, kontakt doesn'tâ€¦

Lex Nahumury · Dec 20, 2004, 02:44 PM

Yes, It seems Logic has quite some problems in regard to VSTis in general.
(I've seen lots of Logic users reporting this on the net)
Point is; Logic seems to have it's own idea of VST implemention.
Besides kX stuff I also write 'real' VSTis and although all my stuff runs happily
on Cubase SX, I have no means to verify/check/debug this on some Logic version.
Is there some demo version available?

**dj_stick** · Dec 20, 2004, 11:10 PM

i'm not sureâ€¦ but the windows version has been discontinued (bought out by apple)

and due to site policy here, i'm not able to discuss other methods

Lex Nahumury · Dec 21, 2004, 03:36 AM

Quote:

i'm not sureâ€¦ but the windows version has been discontinued (bought out by apple)

Yeah, so I read.

Quote:

and due to site policy here, i'm not able to discuss other methods

What other methods?

I was just wondering if there has ever been a demo of Logic for Windows.
Never have been much of a Logic fan myself, so I don't know it's version history.
(to 'lazy' to look it up anyway)

Oh well,..no support for Logic then as far as I'm concerned.

/LeMury

**dj_stick** · Dec 21, 2004, 03:43 AM

there used to be an "education" version that was free, aswell as several bundled versions

Lex Nahumury · Dec 21, 2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

some do, some don't, it's strange

none of the kX ones have ever shown up, but Kontakt used to, but on this install, kontakt doesn'tâ€¦

Well I got hold of some bundled version.

The main reason why kXi and kXSFi don't show up as VSTis in Logic
is (most likely) because Logic expects a VST plugin to have audio in/outputs
which kXi and kXSFi don't have.

So, if a VST plugin has no audio in/outputs declared, Logic does not list/use it.
All other 'real' VSTis i have written seem to work fine in Logic, so I guess adding
audio i/o to kXi/kXSFi should fix this.

Don't know about Kontakt (I don't use it), but it must be a matter of the right '..\VSTplugin' directory for Logic.

/LeMury

**dj_stick** · Dec 21, 2004, 08:23 PM

mm Kontakt IS in thereâ€¦ i might try installing an older version first, then updating

Apr 15, 2004, 06:16 PM	#1
BiCho Audiotecna- Representante Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 173 Rep Power: 0	Differences between KXi and kX Control I don't know if there is any difference at all, since the only point is sending midi messages to the modules in the dsp window. Besides, Kx Control could be far more stable...since it only uses system midi data cheers BiCho __________________ Audiotecna - Innovación Musical Distribuidora oficial de Ortofon DJ, Native Instruments and Moog Music para Colombia (1)8073934

Apr 16, 2004, 06:36 PM	Thread Starter #3
BiCho Audiotecna- Representante Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 173 Rep Power: 0	so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song? maybe a system exclusive with the file name? that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI, I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet). Thanks for your response LeMury, I'm really glad that you are working for kX since your tools have made the system more 'musician friendly'. any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers? That's the feature I miss the most... I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud... keep up the great work BiCho __________________ Audiotecna - Innovación Musical Distribuidora oficial de Ortofon DJ, Native Instruments and Moog Music para Colombia (1)8073934

Apr 17, 2004, 06:31 AM	Thread Starter #5
BiCho Audiotecna- Representante Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 173 Rep Power: 0	>>so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song? >>>>Just load 'kXi', open its editor, click the bleu button. Now you can edit/save the current DSP settings. On project re-opening, kXi will auto re-load your (previously saved) DSP settings. great. i will try it tonight. thanks for the tip >>..that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI, >> I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet). >>>>Ehhh,...kXSFi already automaticly saves and re-loads SoundFont files settings used in your project. No need for sysex. Just human readable file path names. wow! neat >>any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers? >>That's the feature I miss the most... >>>>What do you mean? 'CC91 Reverb Send' and 'CC93 Chorus Send' are already implemented and fully functional in the kX drivers and according to the SoundFont spec's. they aren't. the 20% that was assigned is not the value the usual Creative drivers have. this number must be set higher or else they are quite obsolete. the result is that there is no way you could use control send effects via CCs for each MIDI channel. the only way is using the kX router but i haven't found yet a way to send CCs to it, since the kX automation window only shows me the controles for the modules on the DSP window. actually there's a bug in the kX Router too, check this post, http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...threadid=43429 >>I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud. >>>>I'm not sure what you mean with sync, but I simply use kXi or kX Control for sending synced rhytmic midi patterns to DSP parameters. /LeMury __________________ Audiotecna - Innovación Musical Distribuidora oficial de Ortofon DJ, Native Instruments and Moog Music para Colombia (1)8073934

Apr 18, 2004, 04:59 AM	#6
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	>>they aren't. the 20% that was assigned is not the value the usual Creative drivers have. Probably not, however; kX behaves as defined in the SoundFont standard. Creative doesn't >>the result is that there is no way you could use control send effects via CCs for each MIDI channel. Not true. See also; http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...5&pagenumber=3 (check Max. M's post there) Eitherway; kX's CC91 and CC93 (and per midi channel GM mode) works just fine once you understand the above, so I don't think this implementation will change in the future. (But who knows..) /LeMury Last edited by LeMury; Apr 18, 2004 at 05:07 AM.

Apr 18, 2004, 05:35 AM	Thread Starter #7
BiCho Audiotecna- Representante Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 173 Rep Power: 0	well, actually my problem is not leakage, MIDI CCs 91+93 simply don't work, i have to move the slider manually in the routing so it sends signal to bus 13 or 14... and the sends for device wave 0/1 (as well as ASIO Channels) get stuck to the top as soon as i touch them __________________ Audiotecna - Innovación Musical Distribuidora oficial de Ortofon DJ, Native Instruments and Moog Music para Colombia (1)8073934 Last edited by BiCho; Apr 18, 2004 at 06:01 AM.

Apr 16, 2004, 01:11 AM	#2
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	>>I don't know if there is any difference at all,.. -kXi is a VSTi plugin wich can be used only in a VSTi compatible host (ofcourse). Besides automation, It can also save/load complete DSP setups along with (for example) a Cubase Project. -kX Control, is a "normal" 'internal midi port', and thus can be used by all midi sequencers/apps for automation purposes. /LeMury

Apr 17, 2004, 02:11 AM	#4
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	>>so, how do i tell cubase which file to load into the DSP for each song? Just load 'kXi', open its editor, click the bleu button. Now you can edit/save the current DSP settings. On project re-opening, kXi will auto re-load your (previously saved) DSP settings. >>..that was the way AweVBank loaded soundfonts for each song from any host via MIDI, >> I think you could use that system for your KxSFi (though I haven't tried it yet). Ehhh,...kXSFi already automaticly saves and re-loads SoundFont files settings used in your project. No need for sysex. Just human readable file path names. >>any chance that CCs 91 and 93 work the way they did on the Creative drivers? >>That's the feature I miss the most... What do you mean? 'CC91 Reverb Send' and 'CC93 Chorus Send' are already implemented and fully functional in the kX drivers and according to the SoundFont spec's. >>I would also love to find a way to sync the DSP options to MIDI, but I'm just dreaming aloud. I'm not sure what you mean with sync, but I simply use kXi or kX Control for sending synced rhytmic midi patterns to DSP parameters. /LeMury

Dec 20, 2004, 10:53 AM	#13
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	>>what i'm saying is that Logic doesn't show it in the list of VSTi Which VSTis don't show up? kXi, kXSFi, ..Halion? All of them? Any others?

Dec 20, 2004, 02:44 PM	#15
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	Yes, It seems Logic has quite some problems in regard to VSTis in general. (I've seen lots of Logic users reporting this on the net) Point is; Logic seems to have it's own idea of VST implemention. Besides kX stuff I also write 'real' VSTis and although all my stuff runs happily on Cubase SX, I have no means to verify/check/debug this on some Logic version. Is there some demo version available?