Weird Soundfont Behavior....

CheffDeGaar · Jun 28, 2004, 09:18 AM

Hi all,

I'm just a newbie to kX's World, and I must say I'm impressed...
Quite nice and powerful drivers... but...

I've got a strange problem when playing certain soundfonts. When I load them directly in the SoundFont memory, and play them there's a kind of echo with very long delay (1 or 2 seconds). Much stranger, sometimes the echo doesn't play the sames notes, but other ones

!!! And sometimes, there's a kind of distortion in the echoed notes... Not very easy to describe...

The first time I heard this problem, I was using kXSFi inside Tracktion. So I though it might be some kind of bug inside kXSFi (Sorry Le Mury

mea culpa...) but it was not... I tried loading the SF in Vienna (after a reboot to get all clean), and the problem was still the same... No change either when loading the soundfont through kX's soundfont manager....

Well, the SF I used when I had the problem was a bit large (13Mb), so I thought it can be a size related problem, but it works like a charm with larger SF (my favorite piano SF, 17Mb, for instance...). But I had the same problem with smaller soundfonts (some of the G-Town ones, for example)...

When using VSTi SF players (sfz, bismark, Vsampler, etc...) no problem at all...

I read and re-read the kX docs and all I could find on it, but didn't get a clue. I browsed the forum for long before daring asking, but I didn't find anybody having the same problem... I'm almost sure I have misconfigured my kX implementation, but I can't see where...

Has somebody any hint ???? Pleaaaaaaase !!!

The soundfont I experienced problems with is ProTrax Classical Guitar from Hammersound. I wish I can post a sound example of the problem, but I have no site to post it... I can e-mail a file on request, if it can help.

My current setup is :
- SB Live player 5.1
- kX 3537
- AMD Athlon 2600+
- A7N8X Deluxe MoBo
- 256 Mb ram
- Windows XP Pro

Thanks for any help !

**dj_stick** · Jun 28, 2004, 01:26 PM

check the kX fx page - do you have reverb or chorus active?

CheffDeGaar · Jun 28, 2004, 01:34 PM

Hi, & thanks for replying.

No, when searching to solve the problem, I've simplified the DSP routing - for the moment - and I do not have any effect routed nor active (removed from the DSP page)... And it only affects some soundfonts...Will try tonight to record this weird problem...

Thanks again.

Anthonius · Jul 2, 2004, 02:31 AM

I've been having a similar problem, as well. It seems to occur with fast beats, and after the first four or five seconds of the MIDI have elapsed. Doesn't matter what application it plays under, and it doesn't seem to matter what size font I'm using (I've tried both my 100+MB custom font and my 510KB "standard", both of which worked flawlessly with the Creative drivers).

I hate to hijack Cheff's thread... But I feel that since the problem is so similar, perhaps I could avoid creating another topic devoted to the problem.

My problem is this: Certain MIDI files drop notes, and others echo them in a rather annoying manner. All FX are set to -inf, and I've checked all the help files to no avail. I've recorded samples of what I'm talking about... Each is encoded in Ogg Vorbis and is the same MIDI, in this case, for the sake of tempo, the Starfox 64 Star Wolf theme. Each file is about 20 seconds long and should take far less than that on dialup, considering they're 59KB and 107KB each, respectively.

The 100+MB soundfont with repeating notes/echo (stopped mid-recording for demonstration of echo)

The 510KB soundfont with dropped/distorted notes

CheffDeGaar · Jul 2, 2004, 08:52 AM

Hi Anthonius,
Thanks, I feel less alone ! And no problem, you can threadjack as much as you want

The problem I have "looks" more like the one in first track (100+MB).
Unfortunately I've not been able to record the problem at the moment...
Will try these next days, but would you mind if I ask you to "host" the file, since I have no place to link it ?

Thanks again, and the quest goes on...

Anthonius · Jul 2, 2004, 11:49 AM

Sure thing. If you want, I can give you FTP access on my webserver. PM me and I'll get you set up.

**dj_stick** · Jul 2, 2004, 01:23 PM

if you are writing these melodies - try to extend the note-length to see if that affects the notes

CheffDeGaar · Jul 2, 2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthonius
Sure thing. If you want, I can give you FTP access on my webserver. PM me and I'll get you set up.

Many thanks Anthonius !
I will record the "phenomenon" this week-end, and PM you as soon as I'm finished.

Anthonius · Jul 5, 2004, 01:11 AM

I'm not writing the melody, and it works just fine with the Creative drivers, and every other MIDI output device I have (WinGroove, MS Synth). Upon further testing, it doesn't seem to be limited to a high tempo MIDI, and the distortion on the 510KB soundfont is apparent with any MIDI file I might try to use.

CheffDeGaar · Jul 5, 2004, 01:08 PM

Well, I finally recorded something showing the problem, and with the unvaluable help of Anthonius (Thanks!), who kindly accepted to host the file on his server, you can now listen to what I desperatly tried to descibe

The file is here (mp3,108k). Played using Vienna2.3 (but the result is the same with kXSFi or direct SF loader) and the ProTrax Classical Guitar SoundFont I previouly mentionned. This soundfont includes fret noises for the guitar, that are played on each key release, and that you can clearly hear echoing and distorded... And moreover, some notes are echoed during the pauses (listen at the end, I never played the last note

), and these notes are not the last played ones... Generally speaking, it's like an already played note is "in memory", and replayed a moment later...

I noticed (on this soundfont at least) that the problem is often occuring on the release of the keys. But when I play with the sustain pedal on, the effect is less sensitive...

Any clue ?

Jun 28, 2004, 09:18 AM	#1
CheffDeGaar DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Weird Soundfont Behavior.... Hi all, I'm just a newbie to kX's World, and I must say I'm impressed... Quite nice and powerful drivers... but... I've got a strange problem when playing certain soundfonts. When I load them directly in the SoundFont memory, and play them there's a kind of echo with very long delay (1 or 2 seconds). Much stranger, sometimes the echo doesn't play the sames notes, but other ones !!! And sometimes, there's a kind of distortion in the echoed notes... Not very easy to describe... The first time I heard this problem, I was using kXSFi inside Tracktion. So I though it might be some kind of bug inside kXSFi (Sorry Le Mury mea culpa...) but it was not... I tried loading the SF in Vienna (after a reboot to get all clean), and the problem was still the same... No change either when loading the soundfont through kX's soundfont manager.... Well, the SF I used when I had the problem was a bit large (13Mb), so I thought it can be a size related problem, but it works like a charm with larger SF (my favorite piano SF, 17Mb, for instance...). But I had the same problem with smaller soundfonts (some of the G-Town ones, for example)... When using VSTi SF players (sfz, bismark, Vsampler, etc...) no problem at all... I read and re-read the kX docs and all I could find on it, but didn't get a clue. I browsed the forum for long before daring asking, but I didn't find anybody having the same problem... I'm almost sure I have misconfigured my kX implementation, but I can't see where... Has somebody any hint ???? Pleaaaaaaase !!! The soundfont I experienced problems with is ProTrax Classical Guitar from Hammersound. I wish I can post a sound example of the problem, but I have no site to post it... I can e-mail a file on request, if it can help. My current setup is : - SB Live player 5.1 - kX 3537 - AMD Athlon 2600+ - A7N8X Deluxe MoBo - 256 Mb ram - Windows XP Pro Thanks for any help ! __________________ /Cheff

Jun 28, 2004, 01:34 PM	Thread Starter #3
CheffDeGaar DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Hi, & thanks for replying. No, when searching to solve the problem, I've simplified the DSP routing - for the moment - and I do not have any effect routed nor active (removed from the DSP page)... And it only affects some soundfonts...Will try tonight to record this weird problem... Thanks again. __________________ /Cheff

Jul 2, 2004, 08:52 AM	Thread Starter #5
CheffDeGaar DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Hi Anthonius, Thanks, I feel less alone ! And no problem, you can threadjack as much as you want The problem I have "looks" more like the one in first track (100+MB). Unfortunately I've not been able to record the problem at the moment... Will try these next days, but would you mind if I ask you to "host" the file, since I have no place to link it ? Thanks again, and the quest goes on... __________________ /Cheff

Jul 5, 2004, 01:08 PM	Thread Starter #10
CheffDeGaar DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Well, I finally recorded something showing the problem, and with the unvaluable help of Anthonius (Thanks!), who kindly accepted to host the file on his server, you can now listen to what I desperatly tried to descibe The file is here (mp3,108k). Played using Vienna2.3 (but the result is the same with kXSFi or direct SF loader) and the ProTrax Classical Guitar SoundFont I previouly mentionned. This soundfont includes fret noises for the guitar, that are played on each key release, and that you can clearly hear echoing and distorded... And moreover, some notes are echoed during the pauses (listen at the end, I never played the last note ), and these notes are not the last played ones... Generally speaking, it's like an already played note is "in memory", and replayed a moment later... I noticed (on this soundfont at least) that the problem is often occuring on the release of the keys. But when I play with the sustain pedal on, the effect is less sensitive... Any clue ? __________________ /Cheff

Jul 2, 2004, 02:31 AM	#4
Anthonius DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	I've been having a similar problem, as well. It seems to occur with fast beats, and after the first four or five seconds of the MIDI have elapsed. Doesn't matter what application it plays under, and it doesn't seem to matter what size font I'm using (I've tried both my 100+MB custom font and my 510KB "standard", both of which worked flawlessly with the Creative drivers). I hate to hijack Cheff's thread... But I feel that since the problem is so similar, perhaps I could avoid creating another topic devoted to the problem. My problem is this: Certain MIDI files drop notes, and others echo them in a rather annoying manner. All FX are set to -inf, and I've checked all the help files to no avail. I've recorded samples of what I'm talking about... Each is encoded in Ogg Vorbis and is the same MIDI, in this case, for the sake of tempo, the Starfox 64 Star Wolf theme. Each file is about 20 seconds long and should take far less than that on dialup, considering they're 59KB and 107KB each, respectively. The 100+MB soundfont with repeating notes/echo (stopped mid-recording for demonstration of echo) The 510KB soundfont with dropped/distorted notes

Jul 2, 2004, 11:49 AM	#6
Anthonius DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Sure thing. If you want, I can give you FTP access on my webserver. PM me and I'll get you set up.

Jul 5, 2004, 01:11 AM	#9
Anthonius DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	I'm not writing the melody, and it works just fine with the Creative drivers, and every other MIDI output device I have (WinGroove, MS Synth). Upon further testing, it doesn't seem to be limited to a high tempo MIDI, and the distortion on the 510KB soundfont is apparent with any MIDI file I might try to use.