ZSN SF2 performance with CL drivers

dungle · Sep 2, 2005, 09:30 AM

hi,
has anyone tried soundfonts with the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook?
Is it the same as with a desktop?
I know that support for kX is not a reality yet for this card.
Also, does anyone have experience with the USB soundblasters using soundfonts?
I'm exploring the idea of a portable DAW. I'm hoping the SF2 performance (large fonts for example) is as good as a Live! running on a desktop.
cheers

Maddogg6 · Sep 3, 2005, 01:23 AM

AFAIK - usb units are not 10Kx based and will not be supported by KX.

Thats all I can comment on.

dungle · Sep 3, 2005, 02:40 AM

yes, I know kX will never support the USB based versions.

The reason I ask is I am trying to find out how good the Soundfont engine is in these devices. The PCI based cards use streaming of sample data across the PCI bus to achieve the very impressive hardware accelerated synth we all love.

I suppose the bandwidth of USB2 @400Mbit could support 64voice polyphony but I somehow doubt it. This means that the USB soundblasters must have local RAM which is finite and implies a limit on soundfont size.

The ZS notebook is definitely 10k2 based but uses the "cardbus" which I have no experience with. I assume it has at least the same bandwidth as the PCI bus.
I am hoping someone with direct experience of the ZSN using soundfonts can make comment on how satisfactory the card is for this use.

Unfortunately Creative Labs cards are mainly used by serious gamers and tend to be ignored or looked down apon (sadly) by the "pro" audio/music community. The result is that tech reviews never talk about soundfont except to say they are supported. CL are completely hopless with the (lack of) information they put out.

Which means that forums like this are the only place to find out!
It will be great if the ZSN gets kX support but even if it doesn't happen I think its (probably) a great card to have for a laptop DAW!
cheers

dungle · Sep 3, 2005, 07:49 AM

some questions regarding usb soundblaster and soundfont are answered in this review for the the audigy 2 NX.

[color=darkorange]http://atlas.csbnet.se/livecenter/showpage.php?id=47[/color]
It seems that the soundfont support is software (host based) not hardware accelerated. The opinion in this review is the NX is not a great choice for musicians.

Maddogg6 · Sep 3, 2005, 06:21 PM

If it were me - I would use a small form factor case and mobo and use a PCI card - mostly because of the power conserving a laptop WILL do at the worst possible time. But I also understand that the developers have access to the ZSN so I beleive it will be supported.
Also, I have an A2zs plat and use the 3835h driver with NO problems. It works great. If you do Midi drums with the KX synth in V3835i - the drums (midi ch. 10) dont work.

dungle · Sep 5, 2005, 05:17 AM

one reader review (by a user in a retailer site) had absolute horror stories relating to driver behaviour in regards to the soundfonts of the ZSN (losing synth A and B devices).

A kX supported ZSN would be a completely different proposition.

I also gather that Notebooks vary greatly in thier chipsets as far as streaming performance goes as well. It means that any perchase as a DAW needs to be thoroughly researched and checked out.

Maybe composing and arranging in-transit is a pipe dream anyway!http://www.hardwareheaven.com/images/s...big%20grin.gif

Maddogg6 · Sep 5, 2005, 06:18 AM

It also depends on what exactly you plan to do with such a portable daw. I guess I assumed for portable recording (live gig) type situations. It also depends on what else you want to do with it also. As a portable recording system, Yamaha and Roland both offer portable recoding units, you'll never reply to these forum posts with it, but I suspect their performance in recording will surpass 99% of the laptops out there.

Agreed - if KX supported the ZSN, I have no doubt it would function better than CL driver. I wonder what happened at CL since the AWE32 - at the time, that was a solid system and drivers. Then the Live came out and BLOATED their drivers beyond belief.

Someday a laptop that can satify my demands may exist at a price Im willing to pay, but for now - a laptop - to me - is for internet and M$ Office, email etc. only.

dungle · Sep 16, 2005, 07:33 AM

hi again, I'm breathless at the news that the ZSN has no hardware SF support.
CL make no effort to convey this reality.
It just takes heaps of users to find that the latency is worse than many softsynths and to turn away in disgust!
http://forums.americas.creative.com/....id=117927#M92

Lex Nahumury · Sep 16, 2005, 09:50 AM

Hmm,...I'm afraid that SF hardware support is dying in general.
IIRC the newer emu cards+drivers also do not provide sf hardware support
eventhough the chip supports it.
(I don't know about CL's X-fi though)

/LeMury

dungle · Sep 16, 2005, 04:06 PM

As per usual CL info does not extend beyond marketing bullet points, and extremely vague ones at that.
There are some good threads at sf2midi.com in particular that Vienna 2.4 is bundled with X-Fi and that it has significant improvements. There is no doubt that the X-Fi soundfont is hardware based and enhanced (24bit, 128 voice).
http://www.sf2midi.com/index.php?page=forumnew&id=6658
http://www.sf2midi.com/forum2/read.p...51&view=single
some good soundfont news, I suppose.

Sep 2, 2005, 09:30 AM	#1
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	ZSN SF2 performance with CL drivers hi, has anyone tried soundfonts with the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook? Is it the same as with a desktop? I know that support for kX is not a reality yet for this card. Also, does anyone have experience with the USB soundblasters using soundfonts? I'm exploring the idea of a portable DAW. I'm hoping the SF2 performance (large fonts for example) is as good as a Live! running on a desktop. cheers

Sep 16, 2005, 07:33 AM	Thread Starter #8
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	CL really are fed in the head.* hi again, I'm breathless at the news that the ZSN has no hardware SF support. CL make no effort to convey this reality. It just takes heaps of users to find that the latency is worse than many softsynths and to turn away in disgust! http://forums.americas.creative.com/....id=117927#M92

Sep 3, 2005, 01:23 AM	#2
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	AFAIK - usb units are not 10Kx based and will not be supported by KX. Thats all I can comment on.

Sep 3, 2005, 02:40 AM	Thread Starter #3
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	yes, I know kX will never support the USB based versions. The reason I ask is I am trying to find out how good the Soundfont engine is in these devices. The PCI based cards use streaming of sample data across the PCI bus to achieve the very impressive hardware accelerated synth we all love. I suppose the bandwidth of USB2 @400Mbit could support 64voice polyphony but I somehow doubt it. This means that the USB soundblasters must have local RAM which is finite and implies a limit on soundfont size. The ZS notebook is definitely 10k2 based but uses the "cardbus" which I have no experience with. I assume it has at least the same bandwidth as the PCI bus. I am hoping someone with direct experience of the ZSN using soundfonts can make comment on how satisfactory the card is for this use. Unfortunately Creative Labs cards are mainly used by serious gamers and tend to be ignored or looked down apon (sadly) by the "pro" audio/music community. The result is that tech reviews never talk about soundfont except to say they are supported. CL are completely hopless with the (lack of) information they put out. Which means that forums like this are the only place to find out! It will be great if the ZSN gets kX support but even if it doesn't happen I think its (probably) a great card to have for a laptop DAW! cheers

Sep 3, 2005, 07:49 AM	Thread Starter #4
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	some questions regarding usb soundblaster and soundfont are answered in this review for the the audigy 2 NX. [color=darkorange]http://atlas.csbnet.se/livecenter/showpage.php?id=47[/color] It seems that the soundfont support is software (host based) not hardware accelerated. The opinion in this review is the NX is not a great choice for musicians.

Sep 3, 2005, 06:21 PM	#5
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	If it were me - I would use a small form factor case and mobo and use a PCI card - mostly because of the power conserving a laptop WILL do at the worst possible time. But I also understand that the developers have access to the ZSN so I beleive it will be supported. Also, I have an A2zs plat and use the 3835h driver with NO problems. It works great. If you do Midi drums with the KX synth in V3835i - the drums (midi ch. 10) dont work.

Sep 5, 2005, 05:17 AM	Thread Starter #6
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	one reader review (by a user in a retailer site) had absolute horror stories relating to driver behaviour in regards to the soundfonts of the ZSN (losing synth A and B devices). A kX supported ZSN would be a completely different proposition. I also gather that Notebooks vary greatly in thier chipsets as far as streaming performance goes as well. It means that any perchase as a DAW needs to be thoroughly researched and checked out. Maybe composing and arranging in-transit is a pipe dream anyway!http://www.hardwareheaven.com/images/s...big%20grin.gif

Sep 5, 2005, 06:18 AM	#7
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	It also depends on what exactly you plan to do with such a portable daw. I guess I assumed for portable recording (live gig) type situations. It also depends on what else you want to do with it also. As a portable recording system, Yamaha and Roland both offer portable recoding units, you'll never reply to these forum posts with it, but I suspect their performance in recording will surpass 99% of the laptops out there. Agreed - if KX supported the ZSN, I have no doubt it would function better than CL driver. I wonder what happened at CL since the AWE32 - at the time, that was a solid system and drivers. Then the Live came out and BLOATED their drivers beyond belief. Someday a laptop that can satify my demands may exist at a price Im willing to pay, but for now - a laptop - to me - is for internet and M$ Office, email etc. only.

Sep 16, 2005, 09:50 AM	#9
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	Hmm,...I'm afraid that SF hardware support is dying in general. IIRC the newer emu cards+drivers also do not provide sf hardware support eventhough the chip supports it. (I don't know about CL's X-fi though) /LeMury

Sep 16, 2005, 04:06 PM	Thread Starter #10
dungle DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	As per usual CL info does not extend beyond marketing bullet points, and extremely vague ones at that. There are some good threads at sf2midi.com in particular that Vienna 2.4 is bundled with X-Fi and that it has significant improvements. There is no doubt that the X-Fi soundfont is hardware based and enhanced (24bit, 128 voice). http://www.sf2midi.com/index.php?page=forumnew&id=6658 http://www.sf2midi.com/forum2/read.p...51&view=single some good soundfont news, I suppose.