Vista and 7.3 Display driver atikmdag stopped responding error

reggie14

Just to clarify, you get the same error when you use the 3850, 1950 and 2900 cards? Its too bad you don't have access to an Nvidia card. It still seems a little difficult to justify why it has to be the ATI card/drivers fault. To be honest, the problems you are having seem to severe to make me think its really a driver problem. You don't have that strange of a system. People are complaining about this problem, but not *that* many people are complaining. Don't you think ATI would have already recognized these problems?

Out of curiosity, are you running 32-bit or 64-bit windows?

To be honest, I would love to move back to XP. But, I like dual monitors, including playing back video on the secondary monitor. I could never get hardware acceleration to work on the secondary monitor under XP, but it works fine in Vista.

Tlz

Well here I am 10 days later and still no error messages with the 7.12 drivers so I'm basically stumped at this point. Figured I'd stay with these for the time being until LAN season starts up in the spring

Tlz

Sorry for the double post but I just saw this. I'm running Vista 32 bit and yes I have dual VGA monitors. I haven't installed SP1 if its of any interest. I have heard about certain drivers "resetting" or something along those lines when installing it. Haven't researched it yet but I will before installing it. If anything happens i'll be sure to report it here.

reggie14

I know I'm going to jinx this now, but a couple days ago I installed a patch by AMD for the X2 processors. I haven't had an error yet, and I'm back to running Aero. It hasn't even been a full two days yet, but I'm hopeful that that patch will fix or significantly reduce the frequency of the problems.

psies

I am running 64bit vista because i used 4GB of memory which i would like to use completely (32bit only can address 3.25gb) and i am also working a lot of video editing tools.

I am just running single monitor view.

so far my experience at home and on my work only consist of ati cards. But i do know Nvidia has more or less the same problem.

Just look here, many ppl with the same crash and recovery error.

NVIDIA Forums -> nvlddmkm stopped responding in Windows Vista (113 pages long) again people with all kinds of different hardware even most of them "vista compatible" get these vga crashes...

BTW are there ppl here using omega drivers? Perhaps a solution?

reggie14

I thought you might be running 64 bit. I think I've read on other forums that Vista 32 bit doesn't play well in general with 4 gigs of RAM. I'm running 32 bit, so I can't really speak for problems with Vista 64 or its drivers.

I can say I've never had this problem with Vista 32-bit running off a single monitor. I've just been using ATI's drivers- I haven't tried the omega releases. I also never had this problem in Vista 32 when I was using a 6600GT.

But, I must say I'm absolutely astonished that ATI and Nvidia apparently don't have a way to get more information about these crashes. I realize the Vista message is just a generic error message, but why isn't there a way to get the ATI drivers to keep track of what's going on so we can figure out if these problems are driver related or Windows related.

CBRacerX

I had this problem with an all new system build, bought a new card (another 3870 AND another motherboard) and still have the same problem.

CBRacerX

TLZ - What card are you using? I had big trouble trying to install the 7.12 drivers with the 3870...

Tlz

I'm using a single Diamond HD 2600XT 256MB GDDR3

Newegg.com - DIAMOND Viper 2600XT256PE3SB Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

gwhiz2k

Just thought I'd relate... I just had another TDR error. I've been getting them really randomly (although 2 today), but no looping errors that result in a lockup. I just noticed that once again, the core clock spiked up at the point where the TDR occurred. Wasn't actively using the computer, I was actually on the phone when it happened.

I wonder if this happens more after sleeping the machine? It's just a thought, but when I didn't get a TDR for a week straight, I had left the machine on for that long hoping to catch one. Lately I've been sleeping it at night. I'll check more into the matter.

MozBlue

Just built a new system with 2 x HD 3870, running vista 32, catalyst 8.2 D3D driver 7.14

Started with cross fire that at first ran just fine then the second card seemed to pack up so going to take this back (incodently the heat sink on the naf card looks alot less substancial then the heat piped monster on the good card - both saphiers!)

but i'm still getting atikday stopped responding left right and center longest i've managed in a game is 15mins!!!!


would people advise dual booting XP? is anyone having similar issues under xp?

BFsMarvinTM

Hi all Well after a little time away from this problem I have started from scratch and installed 7.2 drivers and guess what. for 5 days straight I have had no problems what so ever. I can even play Timeshift (it complains about the old drivers) but it does not give me the error. I will keep you up dated if anything changes.

CATALYSTCATCHER

One has to wonder what is the difference before and after? Thanks for the update.

I guess what you are saying is that the older driver does not get TDRs but newer drivers do?

Will you attempt to install Cat 8.2 and see if the TDR returns? We do need to understand if it is the driver itself or possibly the installer messing up something in the system. Or even possibly some other complication.

If you do try 8.2, I would start by only installing the driver and running that for a week before installing CCC, (if you use/need it)

BFsMarvinTM

Yes I get no TDR with the 7.2.
in reguards to the 8.2 do you want me to unintall all of the 7.2 and only install the 8.2 drivers? and have no CCC installed?
Thanks. and no porblem.

dcook

I can't believe there are people on here who are still spouting stuff about bad hardware. I mean, come on, have some self respect.

• The cards and drivers are *solid* under Windows XP.
• The cards and drivers are *solid* under Vista with a single monitor.
• Add a second screen and suddenly some of you think the ATI/nv cards are suddenly of lower quality than previous generations, or our mobos and PSUs are of poor quality or do not support Vista. What?!!

It's laughable, and at the same time shameful.

It's either Vista, the graphics driver, or both. End of. No really, stop contradicting, it makes you look daft at a time when you're trying to demonstrate technical prowess. So some people can't reproduce the problem... doesn't mean the drivers are perfect and the problem lies elsewhere.

CATALYSTCATCHER

That's your opinion. And it has all been said before.

Yes it could be a driver bug or a hardware problem, or even both. Until we can repro the scenario and isolate the problem we will never know. Unlike yourself who obviously know the solution.

In my case I always have an open mind to the source of a problem. But you don't have to spend too much time reading these threads to realize that those who have resolved their problem have done so by replacing hardware. ATI and NV alike. Then they proceed to use the same driver that was previously blamed for the issue.

So, I guess the driver heals itself when you replace bad hardware?

The real difficulty with the TDR, is that you get no information about the actual source of the problem. And that many HW or SW issues can lead to a TDR. The difficulty is in separating the issues. Also keep in mind that driver bugs are usually not randomly occurring events where as hardware problems usually are.

In any case your comment did not provide any insight into the TDR problems.

dcook

"Unlike yourself who obviously know the solution"

I never claimed to know the *solution*, but I've been troubleshooting long enough to hopefully spot ideas that are dead ends and maybe the ones that are the likely culprits. But I can't fix jack, I can only be all pee'd off from a distance. I'm not slating any individual here, I'm just logically clarifying what, as you mentioned, has been said many times before... that this is due to either Vista or the graphics driver when operating multiple monitors. That is, excuse me, not rocket science to deduce, and for me to say it again parrot fashion is not high art either, but I say it to prevent further clouding of the issue with others' talk of new power supplies, motherboards, RAM etc, whether they say it out of genuine desire to troubleshoot or to save face.

That is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It may be no more valid than the advice to get a more stable power supply, but my past tech experience and the results of unfortunate people here spending extra money on new hardware says otherwise.

Please try and prove me wrong though, through your hard work for ATI in making their products better, please discover that it is not Vista or the graphics driver. I'm not solely blaming ATI just for kicks, we all know from our reading of other affected users that this involves other cards. So let's say it's Vista then. But please let's stop saying it's the other system hardware (and stop listening to those who do).

I gain *nothing* from being spot-on when I simplify this issue... not even smugness, I don't care for it or need it to validate myself. I, just like thousands of other people, would simply like my multi-screen Vista system to work properly, and I also have a wish to steer people away from buying new motherboards, power supplies, and RAM chips, as I believe those to be fruitless endeavours in this case. Then I'll disappear into the obscurity of being busy in my work.

I'm not a forum troll and I don't have an online personality or reputation to uphold. I post here, now just 3 times, to make it as clear as possible to anyone that has lost sight of the root issue, that there is a debilitating technical problem using multiple monitors under Vista (in my case with a Radeon Mobility HD2400, although it involves other cards too), so don;t go buying a new system only to find out it's not the other hardware at fault.

CATALYSTCATCHER

Yet there are many who get a TDR and have resolved it by replacing hardware. Memory, PSU, GPU, etc.

Certainly Vista is where TDRs will occur, because the watchdog routines at a kernel level do not exist prior to Vista. In XP you may get a VPU recover, or worse a complete system lockup. OR, XP may not suffer because of differing driver models and memory management techniques.

Certainly a graphics driver bug can envoke a TDR. As can any other imperfect driver that Vista monitors.

But please don't deny that there could be a hardware fault that is at the root. That simply indicates that you have closed your mind to the possibility.

Opinions are also fine. Everyone has the right. But a closed minded opinion clouds the issue as well.

A more acceptable approach would be to include your system details, SW and HW, and also a statement about the difficulty you have. If enough users would do this we would eventually see a pattern arise and be more likely to replicate the problem. In fact I find that it is the user community (forums like this) that generally see the patterns first.

In anycase I use two monitors in Vista and have since the start And I do not experience TDRs, so tell me how to reproduce the problem and I will have a developer looking at my system right away and we can get to the root of the issue. BTW: I am running a PCIE 1900 in a desktop PC. Mobile platforms are usually more difficult to isolate problems with, due to the custom natures of the implimentation defined by the manufacturer.

Does your TDR occur with the driver shipped on the laptop? or are you modding a Catalyst driver in order to get it to install? And how are you attaching the second display? VGA?, DVI?, HDMI?, TVOUT?, Docking Station?

You can see that there are a lot of implications depending on how you answer those questions. And it may be required to duplicate those conditions exactly to uncover 1 line of bad code in the 1000s of lines of code in the driver, Or in Vista code that is handling display enumeration.

CATALYSTCATCHER

My preference, would be to overinstall 8.2. Download the main driver set that inlcudes CCC. Select install and then Custom. Uncheck CCC and the WDM component so that only the driver installs.

Report on what happens.

IF it does not TDR for a good period, use the same 8.2 package and install CCC.

Again, let us know what happens.

psies

YOu can also throw the idea overboard that it is only happening with dual monitor.

Yesterday i played COD4 on Vista 64bits for 10minutes. Atikmdag crasht 7 times. 4 times within 30seconds !!!

I am playing on a fresh installed windows vista version.

I can only say that when i disabled ATI A.I. and disabled AA en AF the problems did not accurred for 1,5 hrs (until i stopped playing)


I still believe it's a vista/hardware /driver compatibility issue, I am 99% sure.

But it's definitly NOT hardware failure. At most you can say vista is doing/controlling some hardware which is not supported by the harware..

For example: Vista gives a hardware interrupt to a videocard which is a shared interrupt adress. So the videocard must share this interrupt address with another hardware device. And somewhere down the line this goes wrong..

If you have a bad power supply which does not deliver a stable 12v line, than you can get strange problems. Not only within vista but ALSO with XP.
If you have a bad memory chip on your videocard. You should get errors while playing game under vista AND XP. etc.
But this issue seems to under occur under vista right? So perhaps vista is "talking"to the hardware a difffernt way and some hardware may not like this.

It's a theory i have. but on the other hand. I have all certified components in my pc! All vista certified of compatible.

It also only happens during games and not during normal desktop work or internet surfing a playing java games on the internet.. So if i have a bad videocard which bad memory, bad core, bad voltage problems. i should also see crashes during idle, stress, internet/surfing/ mail checking... that's not the case !!
It's only happening during games.

BFsMarvinTM

Ok will do and will let ya know.

psies

PS ATI man,

Can\t you guys work together with nvidia with this problem? It seems they can minimize the problem!!
See last lines..

Serious ATI bug makes Vista virtually unusable for some | TalkBack on ZDNet

psies

@catalystcatcher

I have been doing browsing on my pc, looked at system/perfomance tools etc.

I noticed two things which strike me:


take a look at this:


And what about this crazy IRQ assignment ??
http://trancemaster.nkiteam.de/tmp/2.jpg

psies

hmm must delete this post

CATALYSTCATCHER

That thing from ZDNET is a combination of fudd and NV marketing hype. At the very least extremely slanted in their direction. However if they are fixing driver bugs it is good for those who use the driver but it also likely means that they are able to repro the scenarios and then find the offending bit of code.

As far as two displays is concerned it is obviously a trigger for some but by no means typical for the majority of people who suffer the TDR event.

TDRs at the desktop or during stressfull game scenarios also occur. All this really means is that a TDR can happen to anyone at any time under any scenario. The trick is to uncover what actually failed and led to the TDR.

The ZD thing does have one suggestion that is correct and that is to ALWAYS report the TDR to MS and the graphics vendor.

BTW, The OCA data that goes to MS is analysed and when MS sees a big problem and a trend in the data they will let us know and ask what we can do to resolve it. I am sure they do the same with NV. So it is not a waste of time to submit the reports.

psies

ok, but is it logical that i suffer less TDR when i have AA and AF disabled?

CATALYSTCATCHER

If you get less TDR by disabling AA and AF, then it could be a driver bug, but you still must consider the overall impact of disabling the features. In all likelyhood this will reduce the work that the GPU must do and reduce heat. It may impact the amount of power the GPU is consuming. and take pressure off the PSU. I agree with earlier comments that a failing PSU may simply casue a system hang or other wierd problems but I have seen enough powersupplies die a slow death to know that they can also create very vague problems that appear as a software bug.

If turning off AA reduces the number of TDRs have you tried reducing something else to see if that also impacts the number of TDRs or how frequently they occur?

Also I don't believe everyone using the same GPU and driver as you is getting a TDR so that tends to indicate that the driver is OK. But you can never be sure.

Yes, I know this is all very tedious, but we need good solid reports and details so we can repro the issue before a developer will look at it.

Thanks

BFsMarvinTM

I got the error after 5mins of play and also getting it with other games as well. gone back to 7,2 and no problems.

psies

But you now the point is, that i am using dual boot, ? Vista and XP.
I never had any crashes or hangs during gaming under XP. Even with AA and AF on.
If my PSU was to blaim, it should also fail under XP because it should take the same load during games.

I am still trying different settings in de ccc panel. But it takes time.
But so far the difference between using AA and AF and TDR is really noticable.

CATALYSTCATCHER

Not true. Different driver models for graphics and the os, different DX versions. And I have no idea if the games offer up different code paths depending on what version of DX they detect.

Although one would expect identical results in either OS Vista seems to not only push harder but seems more critical of hardware. Although I would not tend to suspect a PSU under these circumstances.

Any way running perfect in XP is good but not an absolute indicator it will run in Vista.

Don't apologize for things taking time. I know that it will take time and effort to dig into a problem. And I also know that this is something a user does not wish to do which makes it an unpleasant task.

We appreciate any effort and assistance we can get to improve our product. (and avoid these messy situation as much as possible)

Thanks