Vista Networking/Sharing, Problems/Solutions

Judas · Mar 12, 2007, 01:01 AM

OK, this is getting quite tiring trying to resolve.

Thought i had it, did have it, lost it.

Long story short, i KNOW i'm not alone with this freaking stuborn issue.

Heres the deal:

Everything should as easy as setting both machines up under the same workgroup name.

Example for me is the workgroup name for both machines being "JUDAS"

ok that's simple.

Next both machines are named differently, for example:

Main machine ~> "Client-JUDAS"
Other Machine ~> "Client-JUDASH"

Ok that sounds great.... doing fine now.

Next open up the Network center.

Disable Passwords

Enable File Sharing, And in the case of printers, enable Printer Sharing, AND Network Discovery set to on as well.

Great.. now last task:

Right click the Partition/drive/folder/whatever and click SHARE, enable sharing and allow permissions for whatever the task is. So in my case, i set the permisions for EVERYONE to CREATE/MODIFY/READ.

Ok that should have covered it all correct?

but if i go over to the other machine and load everything up, go to networks, find the my client with the shared drive, find the shared drive, try to access it and get a huge freaking "DENIED".

now someone, anyone, wtf am i missing here?

Tried doing it the other way around, no dice.

When i get this fixed, i'm going to edit this freaking post with the full discription and solution, and dammit, pin it! (lol)

Judas · Mar 12, 2007, 01:02 AM

image for reference... can you find the missed options?

Monkeyboy · Mar 12, 2007, 03:00 AM

Did you set the Guest account to have access privilidges to your share?

dipstick · Mar 12, 2007, 03:57 AM

Edit- Oops, passwords are disabled

Judas · Mar 12, 2007, 09:34 PM

They both have full admin rights, there are no guests....

technonerd · Mar 12, 2007, 09:41 PM

Ah I see the problem ....

Vista.

Monkeyboy · Mar 13, 2007, 01:17 AM

Unless you're running a Windows server, I'm pretty sure that one PC will connect to another other with guest rights. Therefore you need to enable the guest account on the PC that is sharing and give it at least read privilidges to your shared folder.

Judas · Mar 13, 2007, 05:24 PM

?

why?

I should be able to set both computers, logged in as admins.... to work without passwords on, set the folders/drives i wish to share up for everyone, and then use it as such..... but it's like windows isn't working properly at all.

scorp64 · Mar 13, 2007, 06:20 PM

Check the firewall settings on both systems and make sure that's not blocking things.

By the way I've seen similar issues between XP boxes in a workgroup configuration.

Judas · Mar 13, 2007, 06:36 PM

I've never had an issue with windows XP pro.... home yes.... but not pro..

and vista, the firewall settings are allowing it.. however, both machines are acting like they don't have the privilages to access each other.. like the passwords are required yet. (same damn message, it's like turning passwords off had no effect)

Monkeyboy · Mar 13, 2007, 06:48 PM

In order to improve security, accounts are more sophisticated on Vista than they were on XP. An account created on one PC will have no meaning on another (unless you set them both the same with the same passwords. or you're running one of the Windows server products of course in which case you can set up a domain and the account will be recognised on every machine). Therefore you need to assign the guest account 'read' priviledges at least so that you can access your files from another PC.

I'm sure that's the way it works - unless you have a server installed, in which case you can set up accounts which will be valid domain-wide.

This was very frustrating for me too until I set my system like this. Since then I have no problems accessing and using files shared on my other machines.

I hope you get it resolved soon - try it and let me know how you get on.

Edited to add:

I did some digging, here you go:

"When you disable password protected sharing, the computer sharing the folder does not require a user account or password. Anyone on your network can access the shared folders of the computer (provided the folder was shared for the Guest or Everyone account). This behavior is equivalent to simple file sharing in Windows XP."

There are other ways of setting up sharing, as described in this MS document (from which the above quote is taken) -

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/net.../vista_fp.mspx

Judas · Mar 13, 2007, 07:44 PM

ok reading through that all.. i should be able to click the SHARE button in sharing, but that isn't available (greyed out).... however advanced sharing is available, and clicking SHARE FOLDER is an option.... which i've done..

wtf?

I can't seem to find anything in relation as to why the normal ol SHARE button is greyed out.

Judas · Mar 13, 2007, 07:51 PM

OK, this is imo, kinda stupid...

why would microsoft disallow anyone from sharing a single Partition/drive/whatever, however allow you to create a folder within that drive, and then share that with everyone? IMO that's beyond stupid.

I don't want to share a bloody folder.. i want the entire drive

Monkeyboy · Mar 13, 2007, 08:58 PM

Is it already shared, by any chance?

Judas · Mar 13, 2007, 09:02 PM

no..

ykill · Mar 13, 2007, 09:49 PM

try enabling UPnP, I had a similar problem and it worked

Monkeyboy · Mar 13, 2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

no..

Yeah, it is....

The root of each hard drive is shared by default under Vista (as it was under XP, 2000, NT and LanMan which all came before it). MS networks automatically share the root as a hidden, admin share (i.e. C$ for the C drive, D$ for the D drive etc) which is why it won't allow you to share the drive "again" using the ordinary sharing option... but you can, as you already said, go into advanced sharing and make another share of the same drive.

It's just the way that MS networking has always worked - pretty confusing to some especially if you're used to Netware, but we get used to the idiosyncracies of MS eventually.

Judas · Mar 14, 2007, 07:01 PM

Er?

if i don't have anything at all shared on the drive from the start.... then the drive isn't shared itself at all is it?

And i'm doing nothing different then what i've done with every version of windows. right click the drive i wish to share in full, and hit share.. but the option is greyed out...

Monkeyboy · Mar 14, 2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

Er?

if i don't have anything at all shared on the drive from the start.... then the drive isn't shared itself at all is it?

And i'm doing nothing different then what i've done with every version of windows. right click the drive i wish to share in full, and hit share.. but the option is greyed out...

Regardless of whether you have any data on the drive, it is still shared out by default by the system.

From the MS document I linked to above:

"Sharing the Root of a Drive..

Windows XP by default created administrative shares for the root folders of the fixed drives of the computer. For example, for the root of the C: drive on the computer named BobPC, Windows XP automatically shared \\bobpc\c$. The “$” at the end of the share name means that the share name will not appear in the list of shares. For computers running Windows Vista that are members of a workgroup, these adminstrative shares exist but are blocked for network access for security reasons. You can create your own shares to share your drives from the root of the drive, but Microsoft highly recommends that you share only the folders that you need to, rather than the entire drive.
To share the root of a drive, right-click the drive in the Computer window, and then click Share. Windows Vista displays the properties for the drive with the Sharing tab selected. The Share button and the File Sharing dialog box are not available. However, you can click Advanced Sharing. In the Advanced Sharing dialog box, click Share this folder and specify the share name, permissions, and other settings as needed. When complete, click OK, and then click Close."

shadowfield · Mar 14, 2007, 09:10 PM

NTFS permissions stack with share permissions, so if NTFS permissions are super strict, it will effect share permissions.

So what im saying is that you need to change the NTFS permissions along with share permissions.

Judas · Mar 14, 2007, 09:35 PM

Can i get a walkthrough for that?

btw.. UPnP is enabled across everything

shadowfield · Mar 14, 2007, 10:32 PM

I'm not using Vista right now, so all I can do is explain how to do it in that, so hopefully that will be good enough.

Its basically just like how you set share permissions, but instead of going to the sharing tab, you will want to go to the Security tab and set permissions. If its not there, it might be set to simple sharing like in XP, the option to turn that off is in folder properties.

Remember, Deny over rules all other permissions, so its best not to set any at all for a group instead of Deny.

Also, I just read that the Everyone group does not include Anonymous Logon in XP, so I bet its safe to say that its the same in Vista. So try and add Anonymous Logon to the share/ntfs permissions also.

Judas · Mar 14, 2007, 11:49 PM

hmmm... didn't appear to work.. but i could have screwed something up....

HTP · Mar 22, 2007, 06:06 PM

I had the same exact problem. Try taking the share off the re share the drive but let windows name it in my instance it was K (previously i had named it Software) give everyone full control and it should work for you. hope this helps.

Judas · Mar 22, 2007, 07:31 PM

tried that.. no go.....

IvanV · Mar 23, 2007, 10:40 AM

Is it too important to have password protected sharing off? Because I have it on, and I'm doing more or less the same things you do (I shared an entire partition, gave everyone full control, and told the firewall not to protect the LAN connection), and it works. I log on to the Vista PC with my Vista username and password, and I see the drive and I can access the files.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkeyboy

...
For computers running Windows Vista that are members of a workgroup, these adminstrative shares exist but are blocked for network access for security reasons.
...

So how does one use them?! And why arent they showing up when I click "Advanced sharing"?

Judas · Mar 23, 2007, 04:08 PM

i'd have to create a user for each machine that is identical to that of the machine sharing files.... and they would have to be logged in under that name to be able to share..

imo, this is not exactly a great way of doing things.

IvanV · Mar 23, 2007, 05:15 PM

When I first access the computer with the shared content from the other one, I am prompted for username and password and I can enter any values I want - such user doesn't have to exist on the computer I'm sitting at, but only on the PC I'm connecting to. So you could just create a user account on the machine with the shared files, and the people accessing it would just provide that name and password when prompted. Probably not the most elegant solution, but it works.

Judas · Mar 23, 2007, 06:38 PM

Thing is, i don't even get a prompt.. it just states that i don't have the user rights or privilages, and to contact my administator..

Monkeyboy · Mar 24, 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanV

So how does one use them?! And why arent they showing up when I click "Advanced sharing"?

You need to be an Admin on a Windows domain (i.e. running a Windows server setup) to be able to use them. On a workgroup they are just set up by (and for) the system during install.

Mar 13, 2007, 06:48 PM	#11
Monkeyboy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vista: the woe starts now! Posts: 113 Rep Power: 0	In order to improve security, accounts are more sophisticated on Vista than they were on XP. An account created on one PC will have no meaning on another (unless you set them both the same with the same passwords. or you're running one of the Windows server products of course in which case you can set up a domain and the account will be recognised on every machine). Therefore you need to assign the guest account 'read' priviledges at least so that you can access your files from another PC. I'm sure that's the way it works - unless you have a server installed, in which case you can set up accounts which will be valid domain-wide. This was very frustrating for me too until I set my system like this. Since then I have no problems accessing and using files shared on my other machines. I hope you get it resolved soon - try it and let me know how you get on. Edited to add: I did some digging, here you go: "When you disable password protected sharing, the computer sharing the folder does not require a user account or password. Anyone on your network can access the shared folders of the computer (provided the folder was shared for the Guest or Everyone account). This behavior is equivalent to simple file sharing in Windows XP." There are other ways of setting up sharing, as described in this MS document (from which the above quote is taken) - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/net.../vista_fp.mspx Last edited by Monkeyboy; Mar 13, 2007 at 07:44 PM.

Mar 22, 2007, 06:06 PM	#24
HTP DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Try this I had the same exact problem. Try taking the share off the re share the drive but let windows name it in my instance it was K (previously i had named it Software) give everyone full control and it should work for you. hope this helps.

Mar 23, 2007, 05:15 PM	#28
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,921 Rep Power: 336 System Specs	When I first access the computer with the shared content from the other one, I am prompted for username and password and I can enter any values I want - such user doesn't have to exist on the computer I'm sitting at, but only on the PC I'm connecting to. So you could just create a user account on the machine with the shared files, and the people accessing it would just provide that name and password when prompted. Probably not the most elegant solution, but it works. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

Mar 12, 2007, 03:00 AM	#3
Monkeyboy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vista: the woe starts now! Posts: 113 Rep Power: 0	Did you set the Guest account to have access privilidges to your share?

Mar 12, 2007, 03:57 AM	#4
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	Edit- Oops, passwords are disabled

Mar 12, 2007, 09:41 PM	#6
technonerd DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 594 Rep Power: 0	Ah I see the problem .... Vista.

Mar 13, 2007, 01:17 AM	#7
Monkeyboy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vista: the woe starts now! Posts: 113 Rep Power: 0	Unless you're running a Windows server, I'm pretty sure that one PC will connect to another other with guest rights. Therefore you need to enable the guest account on the PC that is sharing and give it at least read privilidges to your shared folder.

Mar 13, 2007, 06:20 PM	#9
scorp64 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Check the firewall settings on both systems and make sure that's not blocking things. By the way I've seen similar issues between XP boxes in a workgroup configuration.

Mar 13, 2007, 08:58 PM	#14
Monkeyboy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vista: the woe starts now! Posts: 113 Rep Power: 0	Is it already shared, by any chance?

Mar 13, 2007, 09:49 PM	#16
ykill DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	try enabling UPnP, I had a similar problem and it worked

Mar 14, 2007, 09:10 PM	#20
shadowfield DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 117 Rep Power: 0	NTFS permissions stack with share permissions, so if NTFS permissions are super strict, it will effect share permissions. So what im saying is that you need to change the NTFS permissions along with share permissions.

Mar 14, 2007, 10:32 PM	#22
shadowfield DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 117 Rep Power: 0	I'm not using Vista right now, so all I can do is explain how to do it in that, so hopefully that will be good enough. Its basically just like how you set share permissions, but instead of going to the sharing tab, you will want to go to the Security tab and set permissions. If its not there, it might be set to simple sharing like in XP, the option to turn that off is in folder properties. Remember, Deny over rules all other permissions, so its best not to set any at all for a group instead of Deny. Also, I just read that the Everyone group does not include Anonymous Logon in XP, so I bet its safe to say that its the same in Vista. So try and add Anonymous Logon to the share/ntfs permissions also.