360 HD DVD drive + Vista Update! (Dell 3007 NOT HDCP Compliant)

Judas · Mar 23, 2007, 07:49 PM

Anyone using this setup yet? Can i get a few suggestions, things to be aware of ... whatnot.

I plan on picking these up. (trying to get into having these as an available product, but trying to become a small distributor is like trying to become a millionaire with a penny).

However, for me to properly showcase this, i need to know for sure what i absalutely need to be aware of.

First off, I know that we can get Windows XP and the drive to play Full 1080p content no problems at all correct?

However with Vista, and the whole anti-piracy crap, and HDCP as well, i'm kinda iffy on a few things.. and searching around (must not be looking in the right places), results in nothing definitive.

Either case, this is the machine i plan to have setup with the HD-DVD player:

The machine specs are to the left (profile)...

But Basically, i've got ATI Crossfire setup (Both of which have been proven to have no HDCP support) A Dell 3007WFP which i know is HDCP capable. And i've got my hands on the latest CyberLink PowerDVD HD-DVD package.

Should it be as easy as just plugging in the drive, getting vista to recognize it, loading up PowerDVD and then hitting play. Is HDCP going to kick in (do i NEED to find myself a Video card capable of HDCP for sure yet?)

I've heard mixed results, where the video card wasn't truely HDCP, but the drive and powerdvd were able to play 1080p mode no problems.

Anyone able to clearify anything here?

Zelig · Mar 23, 2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

However with Vista, and the whole anti-piracy crap, and HDCP as well, i'm kinda iffy on a few things.. and searching around (must not be looking in the right places), results in nothing definitive.

From what I'm able to tell, anything that works in XP will work in Vista as well. The DRM in Vista allows you to play DRM protected content that would not otherwise play (and that will not play in XP).

I've got some 1080p content that plays nicely in Vista, nothing with DRM to actually try though.

Judas · Mar 23, 2007, 09:23 PM

Well that's a little more confidence than what i had previously.

I've very hopefull of a flawless install/setup/and playback.

I'm REALLY hopping for a steller video quality on this 30" dell though, Upscaling/upconverting to over 2 TIMES more definition should make it really shine, i mean playing back a Quicktime Trailer looks shockingly good.

Orginally for the Trade Show i've got coming up, i was just going to loop a bunch of ATI Demos together, and a pile of HD Trailers as well, but i figured that'd kinda get dull quick. So i went ahead and order the xbox 360 dvd player and a few HD-DVDs...

Went with Happy feet ( hey gotta have a 3D animated movie, that REALLY shows off the detail) and probably end up with Super Man Returns or perhaps another movie, 3 should be plenty, considering that the xbox 360 dvd drive comes with king kong already. (not likely to play this as it's been hyped and pitch so much, but i may.. we'll see).

guess another question is, anyone think of a steller well mastered movie that looks utterly amazing in HD?

Monkeyboy · Mar 24, 2007, 12:56 AM

As far as I remember, you will need both a graphics card and a monitor which support HDCP, as the DRM employed requires a fully-protected path between the player and the output device, otherwise the output will not display at the full 1080 res (it drops down to slightly less than SD resolution, if I recall correctly).

Non-protected HD source won't be affected, so if you don't plan on showcasing HD movies and just rely on the demo clips available from around the web you should have no problems.

Necrosis · Mar 24, 2007, 03:03 AM

Monkey boy is right your x1900xt will not allow you to play it because of them lacking the HDCP chips. However, AnyDVD HD-DVD takes care of that problem.

Judas · Mar 24, 2007, 08:49 PM

See thats the thing, i've googled around, read through forums, and it looks like it's mixed results. I'm either lucky and can get by it or not with the video card not having HDCP... but being vista.... i guess i'll have to find out one way or another.

My major issue is that i don't have a video card that is ATI, that is reasonably cheap enough, that support HDCP... and i can't seem to find one that is capable of Driving a full 2560x1600 display. Dammit, ATI...

AnyDVD HD-DVD.... i'll google that.

jasonbourne · Mar 24, 2007, 10:14 PM

hang on a minute , can u really use a xbox360 hd dvd player with a pc without the xbox360???if so im ordering one now!

Judas · Mar 24, 2007, 11:43 PM

Yes.. yes you can.... very very easily..

Just gotta make sure you've got USB 2.0 compliant port, and Cyberlink PowerDVD 7.2 over later HD-DVD eddition.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/360HD-DVD/

Now the initial review shows the drive setup on the xbox360, but down the road, it's setup on a XP based machine.... however looking through the net and whatnot, it appears that Vista supports the drive completely natively out of the box, and that all you need is a player software that can correctly read from and playback HD-DVD.

BTW, it looks like the only alternative that i can go with is to purchase a Radeon x1950GT or x1950pro, it doesn't look like all the x1950xt's support HDCP, but those other 2 cards do.

Gaud i really don't wanna yank out my x1900 512mb card setup and through in 2 x1950pro 256mb cards... that's a fairly significant drop in performance, which i'm already scratching at hold 60fps @ 2560x1600.

jasonbourne · Mar 24, 2007, 11:51 PM

thanks for the precious information, i wonder if my geforce 8800gts is hdcp

Judas · Mar 24, 2007, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonbourne

thanks for the precious information, i wonder if my geforce 8800gts is hdcp

yes, from what i've read, every Geforce 8xxx series card right from factory support and complies with all HDCP standards. The only thing you'll need to be concerned with is a HDCP capable monitor. And if you don't have one, you'll run into that issue.

Acer recently has been spitting out a hell of alot of cheaper good quality HDCP compliant monitors. 5ms and 2ms responce time LCDs with high contrast ratio, and 16:10 ratio ranging from 19" right up to 22" in 1440x900 and 1920x1200.

I'm still nawwing at the bit here about my perdicament. Boy way back when i had thought i had purchased a fully compliant HDCP complaint video card (s), and then later down the road found out that NOT A SINGLE ATI card support HDCP.... boy not only was i pissed, but some of the customers i had sold a few of the cards to.

Necrosis · Mar 25, 2007, 02:59 AM

http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html

Problem solved

Judas · Mar 25, 2007, 03:16 AM

slick.., thanks

Judas · Mar 27, 2007, 04:58 AM

So i picked up the drive today along with 2 extra HD-DVDs (one animated which usually REALLY shows off the HD advantaged)...

Hooked it up to a Non HDCP compliant x1900xtx video card with a DVI-VGA Supplied adapter, and then hooked that up to a Samsung 32" 720p/1080i LCD HDTV (that's roughly getting close to 2 years old now).

Popped on Cyberlink PowerDVD HD-DVD 7.2 eddition.

Popped in a DVD

ran the HD Advisory, the Driver failed with a big RED NO, the card passed with a green light. and the Analog passed with green as well (didn't say HDCP complaint )

Fired up the HD-DVD and played like smooth as silk.. no issues (wtf, non complaint HDCP video card? )

Figured all was well after all 3 movies played no issues, took it to the shop, popped it on my main rig, and ran the advisory. Once again, the Video Drivers Failed (red)... but also the Display (NON HDCP COMPLIANT) RED.

Now that's confusing as everything states that the Dell 3007WFP is fully HDCP complaint.

Figureing maybe the mastercard was fowling it up.. i disabled crossfire... shutdown, removed the master card, and put the slave card in primary which is the EXACT same video card as the one i had tested and ran successfully early, it's even from the same date and shipment. Plugged in everything, fired up, and ran the test, again the display Failed the test.

Slightly confused by this, i plug in a DVI-VGA adapter, plugged in a LCD HDTV we have here, and tried again, this time it passed. HD-DVD played fine. Ok, odd, tried the dell again, still no go..

Shutdown, plugged in the crossfire setup again, attached the HDTV again using a DVI-VGA adapter, ran the test, passed (except for the driver like always)... and the sucker played fine again.

Plugged the Dell 3007FPW in again, and IT FAILS TO WORK.

I'm sending off an email to Dell and Going through ATI support (ticket)

I'm going to later tomorrow try another DVI monitor, i'm guessing that both the video card and the display MUST meet hdcp support IF using a DIGITAL connection. But imo, this doesn't make any sense at all to me, i thought ALL ANALOG connections didn't support HDCP let alone would be emediately blocked due to how easy it is to pull a copy from an analog signal...

Maybe i'm wrong, not finding the information or something. I'll try a DVI-HDMI connection tomorrow as well and see.

Either way, the drive works beautifully under vista, installs in less then 5 seconds. Just need a Program able to playback HD-DVDs and your set pretty much. Excellent visual quality...

[hobo]eclipse · Mar 27, 2007, 05:41 AM

i was just wanderin aboutthis sort of thing.....i picked up the Gateway 24 inch widescreen cpla weeks back, HDCP compliant to the DVI port. Now just the otherday i got the 360 for me for my birthday! The component didt looks so hot so i tried the VGA cable and its much better, so.....just thinkin, u think the 360 HDD has to circumvent the HDCP somehow or do something to it on the 360 side? seeing as there is no tru digital out on the 360 as of now? prolly not thou when its hooked strait to a pc? reguardless i was thinkin of tryin to pick one up, buddy of mine said he saw them at Wally World(YUK!) for $150. You'd think it work nicely over the DVI and give you a hassle on the VGA converter.

Judas · Mar 27, 2007, 06:13 AM

exactly... i thought using a VGA through a computer setup would cause sepreme greif.... But it doesn't at all (enless you try and run 2 TVs at the same time using VGA cables, in CLONE MODE, then you get a instant killage on the HD-DVD playback within about 3 seconds of startup).

But i just tried a DVI-HDMI cable to the tv, and it's giveing me the same shit. This is however using a x1300 (which i should add, plays back a 720p HD-DVD utterly beautifully clear and smooth with powerdvd and ATI Avivo enabled)...

ATM, i'm trying a few things out to see what's going on.. but it looks like that even if you have a compliant HDCP video card, and a HDCP Screen, HDCP doesn't comply over a dual link DVI connection, only single link (single link maxes out @ 1920x1200, Dual link stretches the barrier by increasing it 2560x1600 and actually higher up to what i beleive was last stated, some 4xxxX2xxx figure)

These things (i've googled) appear to be comeing from people with Nvidia 8800 series cards and Any DUAL LINK DVI connected monitor (HP/DELL/etc. Monitors)

TuneUpWizard · Mar 29, 2007, 04:29 AM

[COLOR=#455b64][FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Seems like, Dell 3007WFP or Dual Link technology on the ATI 1950XTX have an issue when working together.

If I plug-in any HDCP monitor that is Not Dual Link then HDCP compliance passes and HD-DVD or Blue-ray video playback is achieved.

So what we need is a Dual Link monitor other then Dell and see if same problem occurs, otherwise is definitely video card issue.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Judas · Mar 29, 2007, 05:46 PM

I've looked around even more and it appears that ALL Dual LINK DVI connections do not pass HDCP compliances. (So how the hell did dell pass it when there is no other way to get the 3007 to pass hdcp without scrapping the dual link connection)

Course if i set the resolution down to 1280x800 (half native) i can get the sucker to play.

Actually finding more and more out about the situation, I've since found out that playing HD-DVD content (ripped) without HDCP protections @ 2560x1600, results in a sevearly distorted picture. It would appear that the top left hand corner of the video (say 1/4 to 1/6 of the video) is being scewed and stretched to the full size of the video. From what i've read up on this, it is either a Video card hardware limitation or a Driver error. Seeing how Quicktime content will play fine @ 2560x1600, i'd have to go with a semi driver/hardware issue.

Either way, it's being a bastard, and i'm hopeing that the R600 is dual link HDCP capatible.

Mar 24, 2007, 12:56 AM	#4
Monkeyboy DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vista: the woe starts now! Posts: 113 Rep Power: 0	As far as I remember, you will need both a graphics card and a monitor which support HDCP, as the DRM employed requires a fully-protected path between the player and the output device, otherwise the output will not display at the full 1080 res (it drops down to slightly less than SD resolution, if I recall correctly). Non-protected HD source won't be affected, so if you don't plan on showcasing HD movies and just rely on the demo clips available from around the web you should have no problems.

Mar 24, 2007, 03:03 AM	#5
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Monkey boy is right your x1900xt will not allow you to play it because of them lacking the HDCP chips. However, AnyDVD HD-DVD takes care of that problem.

Mar 24, 2007, 10:14 PM	#7
jasonbourne DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: great yarmouth uk Posts: 1,082 Rep Power: 0	hang on a minute , can u really use a xbox360 hd dvd player with a pc without the xbox360???if so im ordering one now!

Mar 24, 2007, 11:51 PM	#9
jasonbourne DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: great yarmouth uk Posts: 1,082 Rep Power: 0	thanks for the precious information, i wonder if my geforce 8800gts is hdcp

Mar 25, 2007, 02:59 AM	#11
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html Problem solved

Mar 27, 2007, 05:41 AM	#14
[hobo]eclipse ...just bummin 'round Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,907 Rep Power: 112 System Specs	i was just wanderin aboutthis sort of thing.....i picked up the Gateway 24 inch widescreen cpla weeks back, HDCP compliant to the DVI port. Now just the otherday i got the 360 for me for my birthday! The component didt looks so hot so i tried the VGA cable and its much better, so.....just thinkin, u think the 360 HDD has to circumvent the HDCP somehow or do something to it on the 360 side? seeing as there is no tru digital out on the 360 as of now? prolly not thou when its hooked strait to a pc? reguardless i was thinkin of tryin to pick one up, buddy of mine said he saw them at Wally World(YUK!) for $150. You'd think it work nicely over the DVI and give you a hassle on the VGA converter.

Mar 29, 2007, 04:29 AM	#16
TuneUpWizard DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: California Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	[COLOR=#455b64][FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Seems like, Dell 3007WFP or Dual Link technology on the ATI 1950XTX have an issue when working together. If I plug-in any HDCP monitor that is Not Dual Link then HDCP compliance passes and HD-DVD or Blue-ray video playback is achieved. So what we need is a Dual Link monitor other then Dell and see if same problem occurs, otherwise is definitely video card issue.[/FONT][/COLOR]