Windows on a Custom PC

riseagainst541 · Aug 16, 2006, 01:14 AM

Hi. I am just starting to get into the whole build your own pc due to the fact i am starting to do more with it and I was wondering if someone could help me out with this i noticed xp home is 200 at best buy and circuit city, but on newegg the OEM is 89.99. And for the upgrade is 100, and my question was since i have a restore disc for another computer (emachines poor choice in pcs but originally for school) could i use that then install all the drivers for my computer after the disc puts the os on? And if I can't do that should I purchases the OEM or the one that costs 200.

p.s. I don't exactly know what the OEM version is

Dyre Straits · Aug 16, 2006, 03:53 AM

Greetings and welcome to Driverheaven!

First of all, most restore discs like the one with the eMachines will be locked to the system. That means that you won't be able to install from it onto another computer.

The OEM would be your better choice as it likely won't be locked to any particular system. HOWEVER, you have to be very careful that the disc is actually a legitimate one and that you're buying it legally. Most, if not all, OEM discs must be sold with a computer or hardware purchase....not just by itself.

OEM simply means: Original Equipment Manufacturer.

If you even have an older version of Windows, e.g. 95, 98, ME, or whatever, you can purchase the Upgrade version of the Windows you want and simply use that to verify the upgrade legality issue.

Judas · Aug 16, 2006, 05:18 PM

IMO, i'd recommend for a custom built machine or any computer to stay away from Both Upgrade disks and Windows XP Home edition.

Save a little cash and get the Windows XP Pro, trust me, you'll be alot happier with the results.

riseagainst541 · Aug 17, 2006, 12:36 AM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16837102059

That is what is on newegg. If it is on a site like newegg is it most likely legal?

Quote:

XP, HOME, OEM

Pros: M$'s windows xp. It is home but if you are not crazy about servers, home would do just fine. Also it is time to go legal, after all....

Cons: OEM. OEM is basically stuck to your motherboard, and any time you change a part in your computer, it will consider 'violation of EULA' which is kinda burdensome...

Other Thoughts: Retails are much expensive, and OEM should do enough as long as you don't change the motherboard and don't do any crazy o/c, format, or upgrades. Reminds:Internet validation is only acceptable for 'first-installation' configuration. After that, you'll just need to call and ask M$.

That was a review that someone posted for the OEM does that mean i could never format or install new hardware such as more/new RAM and a larger storage hard drive?

Dyre Straits · Aug 17, 2006, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainst541

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16837102059

That is what is on newegg. If it is on a site like newegg is it most likely legal?

That was a review that someone posted for the OEM does that mean i could never format or install new hardware such as more/new RAM and a larger storage hard drive?

A Lot really depends on the OEM disk you get. If it has, for example, the DELL logo on it, it may be locked to certain motherboards.

IMHO, I'd never opt to get an OEM disk even off a discount table. If you've been following Microsoft's tactics lately, they are suing many local retailers for just this type of sales. You really risk getting a pirated/illegal copy going this route.

You're better off looking for local ADs. I see XP Home Upgrade and XP PRO Upgrade sales quite frequently.

One thing about these Upgrade disks: You do NOT have to install the previous version in order to use them. You only have to show that you own a previous version of Windows in order to install the upgraded one.

But, as Judas says above, the PRO version is much better than the Home Edition....although I'm using both here on separate computers.

Judas · Aug 17, 2006, 05:38 PM

the advantages of pro are much more then just Server crap, it's the whole design and running condition of it.

XP Pro is like a fine tuned car with excellent milage and excellent set of tires under slippery conditions.

I've found XP Home to be quite unreliable and prone to crash or hiccup or even full out dislike/not work under alot of different occasions. Frankly it's just not worth shelling out that kinda money for home when for a few bucks more, you can get the pro.

riseagainst541 · Aug 17, 2006, 10:16 PM

So your saying that no OEM disc comes straight from microsoft they all come from a different computer manufacturer?

And if so are any of them not locked to a certain system

PangingJr · Aug 18, 2006, 02:22 AM

there are two types of Windows XP OEM CDs:

1) an OEM version created by a system manufacturer. these copies are usually "BIOS-locked", and can only be used on the exact machine they were created for.

2) a Full OEM, or Full OEM DSP. these may be installed on any IBM-compatible machine. these may or may not be provided with a factory-built machine, but are usually purchased separately for installation on a home-built machine.

OEMs may also activate Windows XP by contacting MS in the same way as activating a retail boxed version of Windows XP.

a Full OEM version must legally be sold along with a hardware item, but in many cases this hardware item may be a power-cord (usually a $1) or mouse... (they might even give you the mouse to satisfy Microsoft's licensing requirements).

a quick google search, found this info on very first results, some of info may be old...
Why different Microsoft OEM, DSP, AE, Retail software?
http://www.xxera.com/faqs/faq_s4.html

Dyre Straits · Aug 18, 2006, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainst541

So your saying that no OEM disc comes straight from microsoft they all come from a different computer manufacturer?

And if so are any of them not locked to a certain system

Like I said above, it really depends on which OEM you get. PangingJr has given a very good response re: OEM disks.

My precaution is that, you do not know which type of OEM Disk you're really getting.

And, to answer the question, Yes, some OEM Disks do come straight from Microsoft. I have one that was sent to me directly from MS Support due to a problem that developed.

So, whether you proceed to purchase this disk is up to you. I feel, though, that you're risking a possible problem that could result in not being able to get Activation and Updates if that disk is found to be pirated/illegal.

If, however, you're buying some hardware with that, and the seller can verify that it's not locked to a particular system, that would seem to have all the bases covered.

For me, I just wouldn't risk it. But, that's just me.

riseagainst541 · Aug 18, 2006, 03:17 AM

I'm buying $800 of hardware so would that mean newegg would send me a working copy?

Dyre Straits · Aug 18, 2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainst541

I'm buying $800 of hardware so would that mean newegg would send me a working copy?

If you're buying all the hardware from the same place as the Windows OS, then, you're likely in good shape.

Good luck to you.

Zardon · Aug 19, 2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

I've found XP Home to be quite unreliable and prone to crash or hiccup or even full out dislike/not work under alot of different occasions.

elaborate.

Dyre Straits · Aug 20, 2006, 10:03 AM

I'd kind of like an elaboration, too. Of 4 active computers in this house, 3 of them are using XP Home Upgrade versions. My main rig is the only one using XP PRO non-upgrade.

None of them seem to require attention anymore than the others.

I think the main thing is to keep them updated.

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyre Straits

None of them seem to require attention anymore than the others..

That is because they don't, home and Pro are exactly the same kernel with pro having basically more options for networking and businesses as well as a few other misc things.

I really do have to question some of Judas posting and the advice he gives out to members. I do apologise to the thread starter as this is not productive to his question however hopefully people understand it is important the advice given out here by guys seen as more experienced and with huge post counts is technically correct. Judas comments and comparisons with cars and slippery tyres is beyond ludicrous.

Chaos · Aug 20, 2006, 01:45 PM

I agree 100%. Judas do you think your posts through before posting them? While i do think you have a decent level of computing skills some of your responses are way out in left field. Could it be damage from Coke syrup perhaps

Yousaif · Aug 20, 2006, 01:46 PM

For my system builds I always go with an OEM CD from Newegg, be it Pro or Home edition. An OEM CD is just an "Original Equipment Manufacturer" CD. As you are going to build this yourself, then you are the OEM.

The OEM CD's that you get from Newegg are just meant to be installed by a system builder, in this case, you, on a fully functional computer.

They are the full version and are not BIOS locked, and they function just like the significantly higher priced retail version.

Oh I just noticed, this is my 666th post!

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wyoming, MI, USA
Posts: 666
Status: Online

CJLMTLCA · Aug 20, 2006, 01:47 PM

I came here to reply to Judas, but i see you guys beat me to it. If you, Judas, have some examples or links that would help, because all the research i've done a while back always comes to the same conclusion is that PRO has better networking, additional encryption, and some other minor stuff. I'm no expert, but i've tweaked Home to the point where it is running quite well (thanks to good quality H/W also).
However maybe i don't know what i'm missing, since i don't have a side-by-side comparison, so if you could elaborate, that would be great.

Edit: hmmm, just saw this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/h...choosing2.mspx
Pro is geared towards business, but the section Highly Responsive With The Power... is making me sweat now. Maybe performance does improve for apps and desktop work? Does this translate to better gaming too...?
Hmmm...

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJLMTLCA

Edit: hmmm, just saw this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/h...choosing2.mspx
Pro is geared towards business, but the section Highly Responsive With The Power... is making me sweat now. Maybe performance does improve for apps and desktop work? Does this translate to better gaming too...?
Hmmm...

if you have multiple physical processors then pro would make a difference, but please bear in mind they are identical kernels, the underlying code is the same meaning one or the other is no more/less stable. its just some functionality aimed at businesses or power users which makes a difference. I would agree with judas in the fact that the price difference between both in 2006 would mean I would always choose PRO myself, however there is nothing wrong with home. In fact media center is probably the best option now for the majority of home users.

if you want to do some accurate research into home and pro, head over to this page and you will see the differences. the page is a little old now, but the material is still valid.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...p_home_pro.asp

CJLMTLCA · Aug 20, 2006, 06:31 PM

I know there is nothing wrong with home and never questioned it's stability, however i consider myself a prosumer, so i guess if i had to do it again i would pick pro. If it gives small edge, well, a few % here, a few % there and it adds up at the end of the day. I do everything with my PC, games, video, audio, net, office, so if pro pushes multitasking further then i'm interested.
When you say multiple physical cpus as in 2 cpus? Not multiple cores right, but that should benefit too.

If i do upgrade (thinking about PCI-E,DDR2,C2D) then i might aswell pick up a copy of pro since my current home oem will not allow a major upgrade...

I will check out the link, thanks...

Judas · Aug 20, 2006, 07:13 PM

From my experiences with XP home vs XP Pro is this:

I've found that most users, john/jane doe will technically run into more problems down the road with windows XP Home then XP Pro. Why? Well i'm not completely sure what they do.

But i've even gotten this opinion from several people that have identical setups running the 2 different versions.

Myself i've found that when it even remotely comes to any form of networking, Home falls appart instantly, i've even ran into the issues of not even getting xp home to even remotely talk to ANY machine at all for any reason at all that i could find. Hell even from a fresh Home Install, i've had issues that just don't make any sense in that department where pro shines, now that's obvious as pro is built with the networking figures, but it doesn't explain some of the internet related issues that have cropped up due to it.

Now on the other fronts, i've seen XP home have other limits, be it how it appears to manage memory resources and other tasks apparently less efficiently, some performance differences, majority of my concerns are reserved to the fact that future upgrades will most likely be limited on the home eddition, for example, home eddition would not show up as having 4 cpu's in the task manager, only 2, when running a intel dual core with HT enabled. Looking into it shows that home only will support the 2. I never looked very far so i'm not aware of any patch that could resolve this.

Other things in which i find Pro has MUCH better support and easier to resolve problems in is due to technical support from other companies.

Most of my experiences with XP Home aren't terrible or anything, i just find that it appears to have quirks which i can't specifically detail. From spyware to viruses to people royally screwing the machine up. It just appears that XP Pro seems and understandably have a much better backbone in the restore/backup/stability and overall support area. To quote mac "It Just Works" majority of the time on XP Pro vs XP Home.

Judas · Aug 20, 2006, 07:43 PM

This guy laid it out fairly well on other reasons Pro is a better choice and worth those few extra bucks versus the home eddition:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...p_home_pro.asp

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

This guy laid it out fairly well on other reasons Pro is a better choice and worth those few extra bucks versus the home eddition:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...p_home_pro.asp

If you slowed down and read the posts in this thread you will see i posted that link three posts above yours

This thread is getting to be totally ridiculous. of course there are differences between pro and home, otherwise MS wouldnt charge more, however the differences are not based on stability and the home being flaky or useless, the differences are generally tailored for businesses/security, they certainly arent "buy pro and gaming will be 30% faster and it wont crash either". Ill be totally honest with you judas, that post you made above this has so many contradictions and misleading information I cant even begin to try and start responding to it.

lets get this thread back on track, its turning in a jumbled rant.

Dyre Straits · Aug 20, 2006, 08:31 PM

I only want to add this re: Home/Pro vs. Networking. Again, this is just based on my experience both here at the house and in setting up home networks for a few others elsewhere.

So far, I've had no problem getting the Home machines working on a home LAN and communicating with other computers. The major thing I've come across is that whatever HD, Folder, File, or whatever that needs to be Shared will have to be designated to do so.

I've transferred files from Home to Pro and back again with very few problems. Usually, if there is a problem it's due to not having the Shares set up right.

In every case, though, all of the computers have been able to access a shared Internet connection....which is mostly what Home users are wanting rather than to actually transfer files from one to another computer.

Hopefully, all this discussion has added the help sought by the original poster to make a better decision.

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 08:35 PM

Everything Dyre said is 100% correct. I also recommend media center edition for home use, it has a lot of wonderful media functionality

pr0digal jenius · Aug 20, 2006, 09:30 PM

Indeed.

MCE 2005 is a glorious version, and erhaps the best thing M$ did since XP originally came out.

As for networking problems, file sharing, and the like...

Here at home I've XP Pro SP2 on my Dual Xeon, XP Pro SP2 on my Vaio, XP Home SP1 OEM on mom's Vaio, and they alls ee each other just fine, so long as the router isn't PMS-ing [I swear it just randomly decides to be difficult once a month]

Here are the isntances when you need Pro:
-More then 2 Cores/Threads [there are arguements that it's only cores, and not threads, but I'm not gunna bother testign it since I own both]...this won't be an issue unless you get into server equipment
-IIS...which unless you're an IT nut, you probably don't have a clue what it is. [Some colleges/Universisites require XP Pro. My guess is the reasoning lies within this limitation, however, I have sent PC's off to college with XP Home when pro was required, and they did just fine. SO even there, it will likely be a non-issue unless you are majoring in CS, IT, SWE, or something similarly tech-inclined where your classes may use IIS for some odd reason]
-Administrative Control Panel Features [namely user account control for multiple user environments]...again, not an issue for the home user.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed any advantages of Pro, but in a nutshell, as far as my knowledge goes, those are it.

Necrosis · Aug 20, 2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Everything Dyre said is 100% correct. I also recommend media center edition for home use, it has a lot of wonderful media functionality

Plus it's damn cheap!

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

Plus it's damn cheap!

Good point. Funny thing is I use Home/Pro and Media center on various pcs throughout the house. they all connect together great over my mixed wireless and 100LAN network and all work exceptionally well individually for a myriad of uses ... if I was choosing an OS for a new pc for my home I would pick media center out of the three - specifically for the wonderful media options it brings to the table and the interaction available with devices such as the Xbox 360. 6 months ago if you had asked me, I would have said Pro. Thing is i rarely use the pro added functionality at home.

swimtech · Aug 20, 2006, 10:53 PM

Nice links on this page - I didn't realize that XP Home did not have the NTFS file system available - that's a big one. You seen that Dyre? The NTFS file system is much more stable than FAT32 - and using that file system can save you, and complicate issues too but - shoot, we could write a book on the file system alone.

One thing in favor of XP Home though, down the road looking to Vista, the upgrade path is wide open for those users - you should be able to upgrade to any version and retain your current XP Home settings during an upgrade install - some of those versions may not be what you want come then, but I don't think anyone can tell yet for sure as Microsoft hasn't set the features in stone yet - but the options should be there. Here's a chart and links to explore from the page:
Vista Upgrade Planning - Microsoft

OEM vs. Retail = no functional difference on a single computer, and since you're purchasing hardware from NewEgg, like was mentioned, you should be good to go - NewEgg's got a good reputation to uphold.

Zardon · Aug 20, 2006, 11:14 PM

XP Home does have NTFS support (as does Media edition). That article is from 2001 - certain aspects are no longer applicable.

Asmoday · Aug 20, 2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Good point. Funny thing is I use Home/Pro and Media center on various pcs throughout the house. they all connect together great over my mixed wireless and 100LAN network and all work exceptionally well individually for a myriad of uses ... if I was choosing an OS for a new pc for my home I would pick media center out of the three - specifically for the wonderful media options it brings to the table and the interaction available with devices such as the Xbox 360. 6 months ago if you had asked me, I would have said Pro. Thing is i rarely use the pro added functionality at home.

Wha? Can you run Media center as a "normal" OS? Or am I misunderstanding something here? I've never built a media PC before and never considered Media center, but it can be used instead of home or Pro, apps/games and stuff work on it ?

Aug 16, 2006, 01:14 AM	#1
riseagainst541 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	Windows on a Custom PC Hi. I am just starting to get into the whole build your own pc due to the fact i am starting to do more with it and I was wondering if someone could help me out with this i noticed xp home is 200 at best buy and circuit city, but on newegg the OEM is 89.99. And for the upgrade is 100, and my question was since i have a restore disc for another computer (emachines poor choice in pcs but originally for school) could i use that then install all the drivers for my computer after the disc puts the os on? And if I can't do that should I purchases the OEM or the one that costs 200. p.s. I don't exactly know what the OEM version is

Aug 18, 2006, 02:22 AM	#8
PangingJr Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,989 Rep Power: 71	there are two types of Windows XP OEM CDs: 1) an OEM version created by a system manufacturer. these copies are usually "BIOS-locked", and can only be used on the exact machine they were created for. 2) a Full OEM, or Full OEM DSP. these may be installed on any IBM-compatible machine. these may or may not be provided with a factory-built machine, but are usually purchased separately for installation on a home-built machine. OEMs may also activate Windows XP by contacting MS in the same way as activating a retail boxed version of Windows XP. a Full OEM version must legally be sold along with a hardware item, but in many cases this hardware item may be a power-cord (usually a $1) or mouse... (they might even give you the mouse to satisfy Microsoft's licensing requirements). a quick google search, found this info on very first results, some of info may be old... Why different Microsoft OEM, DSP, AE, Retail software? http://www.xxera.com/faqs/faq_s4.html Last edited by PangingJr; Aug 18, 2006 at 02:50 AM.

Aug 20, 2006, 01:45 PM	#15
Chaos Number Nine Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 5,268 Rep Power: 167 System Specs	I agree 100%. Judas do you think your posts through before posting them? While i do think you have a decent level of computing skills some of your responses are way out in left field. Could it be damage from Coke syrup perhaps __________________

Aug 20, 2006, 01:47 PM	#17
CJLMTLCA 14X Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 633 Rep Power: 63 System Specs	I came here to reply to Judas, but i see you guys beat me to it. If you, Judas, have some examples or links that would help, because all the research i've done a while back always comes to the same conclusion is that PRO has better networking, additional encryption, and some other minor stuff. I'm no expert, but i've tweaked Home to the point where it is running quite well (thanks to good quality H/W also). However maybe i don't know what i'm missing, since i don't have a side-by-side comparison, so if you could elaborate, that would be great. Edit: hmmm, just saw this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/h...choosing2.mspx Pro is geared towards business, but the section Highly Responsive With The Power... is making me sweat now. Maybe performance does improve for apps and desktop work? Does this translate to better gaming too...? Hmmm... __________________ Last edited by CJLMTLCA; Aug 20, 2006 at 01:59 PM.

Aug 20, 2006, 06:31 PM	#19
CJLMTLCA 14X Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 633 Rep Power: 63 System Specs	I know there is nothing wrong with home and never questioned it's stability, however i consider myself a prosumer, so i guess if i had to do it again i would pick pro. If it gives small edge, well, a few % here, a few % there and it adds up at the end of the day. I do everything with my PC, games, video, audio, net, office, so if pro pushes multitasking further then i'm interested. When you say multiple physical cpus as in 2 cpus? Not multiple cores right, but that should benefit too. If i do upgrade (thinking about PCI-E,DDR2,C2D) then i might aswell pick up a copy of pro since my current home oem will not allow a major upgrade... I will check out the link, thanks... __________________

Aug 17, 2006, 10:16 PM	Thread Starter #7
riseagainst541 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	So your saying that no OEM disc comes straight from microsoft they all come from a different computer manufacturer? And if so are any of them not locked to a certain system

Aug 18, 2006, 03:17 AM	Thread Starter #10
riseagainst541 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	I'm buying $800 of hardware so would that mean newegg would send me a working copy?

Aug 20, 2006, 08:35 PM	#24
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Everything Dyre said is 100% correct. I also recommend media center edition for home use, it has a lot of wonderful media functionality

Aug 20, 2006, 09:30 PM	#25
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	Indeed. MCE 2005 is a glorious version, and erhaps the best thing M$ did since XP originally came out. As for networking problems, file sharing, and the like... Here at home I've XP Pro SP2 on my Dual Xeon, XP Pro SP2 on my Vaio, XP Home SP1 OEM on mom's Vaio, and they alls ee each other just fine, so long as the router isn't PMS-ing [I swear it just randomly decides to be difficult once a month] Here are the isntances when you need Pro: -More then 2 Cores/Threads [there are arguements that it's only cores, and not threads, but I'm not gunna bother testign it since I own both]...this won't be an issue unless you get into server equipment -IIS...which unless you're an IT nut, you probably don't have a clue what it is. [Some colleges/Universisites require XP Pro. My guess is the reasoning lies within this limitation, however, I have sent PC's off to college with XP Home when pro was required, and they did just fine. SO even there, it will likely be a non-issue unless you are majoring in CS, IT, SWE, or something similarly tech-inclined where your classes may use IIS for some odd reason] -Administrative Control Panel Features [namely user account control for multiple user environments]...again, not an issue for the home user. I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed any advantages of Pro, but in a nutshell, as far as my knowledge goes, those are it.

Aug 20, 2006, 10:53 PM	#28
swimtech HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,040 Rep Power: 124 System Specs	Nice links on this page - I didn't realize that XP Home did not have the NTFS file system available - that's a big one. You seen that Dyre? The NTFS file system is much more stable than FAT32 - and using that file system can save you, and complicate issues too but - shoot, we could write a book on the file system alone. One thing in favor of XP Home though, down the road looking to Vista, the upgrade path is wide open for those users - you should be able to upgrade to any version and retain your current XP Home settings during an upgrade install - some of those versions may not be what you want come then, but I don't think anyone can tell yet for sure as Microsoft hasn't set the features in stone yet - but the options should be there. Here's a chart and links to explore from the page: Vista Upgrade Planning - Microsoft OEM vs. Retail = no functional difference on a single computer, and since you're purchasing hardware from NewEgg, like was mentioned, you should be good to go - NewEgg's got a good reputation to uphold. __________________ It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

Aug 20, 2006, 11:14 PM	#29
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	XP Home does have NTFS support (as does Media edition). That article is from 2001 - certain aspects are no longer applicable.