[Dyre Straits]

OK...here goes:

I can confirm that the KB890859 Hotfix Update causes my system to refuse to boot into normal Windows. I get up to the Windows XP logo screen....the one with the animated blue dots. Then, when it should get to the Welcome screen, instead I get a black screen and nothing else past that.

I was able to boot into Safemode and Uninstall the troublesome update successfully. However, the system STILL refused to boot into normal Windows until I selected "Last Known Good.... that worked."

So, I'm off to send an updated email to MS tech support.

C-A-D: All the updates are saved to your Windows folder under the SoftwareDistribution sub-directory in the Download folder.

[PangingJr]

i used to get just some drivers files off the folder \WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution\..., these files are usually have a very long name such as '3ee09b86ccdc3b96c11aaa0998e40cc5fc995bc7' with no file extension i copy these files to other location and rename it to anyname.zip so i can have this file available to be used on the others XPs that uses same devices, but i never leave the automatic D/L on to get the hotfixes, normally i'll go to the hotfixes pages and get them all in one time.

as for the problem with the specific hotfix, i'm really don't know why that happens to your's.

i've previously mentioned about the LKG Configuration.
reason that you were not getting any error during the update installs maybe because all the system files that needs to be replaced are in used and all will actually take effect on next reboot, then while booting and Windows do its things, that's something is missing there.

[Dyre Straits]

C-A-D:

If you open the Windows directory, you should see several of the hotfix log files. Open any of those and you'll see the details about that particular hotfix -- including the location of the downloaded file from which it is installed.

[PangingJr]

okay, i knew all about that. but i'm not sure what you want me to do? what kind of info you want to know in my log file?

[Jonny 5]

Hi again ,

so I became intrested, which file exactly caused the error and restored the 6 potentially problem files of kb890859. I found out that user32.dll caused the system not to boot (an essential dynamic link library for the logon process. eg, if you want to lock the pc, these settings are stored, within this file too).

I don't know, if it will cause any other problems, but for me the system works fine when I just replace the user32.dll from the backup-folder (usually c:\windows\$NtUninstallKB890859$). I kept the other files for now, but I wouldn't recommend this. Just uninstall the whole kb890859 update.

If you want to restore the file without recovery console (if last good won't work, no go back...) and you have installed windows on a ntfs partition, do the following (don't forget to disable automatic windows updates in - system properties > automatic updates - first):

1.) Download ntfs4dos @ http://www.datapol.de/dpe/freeware/index.html
(freeware) Create a Boot CD/diskette and setup in Bios (hold del @ startup) if necessary, to boot from CD/diskette. Then Boot to ntfs-dos and mount the partitions. You can also try to get Hiren's boot CD and then start NTFSDos pro. (menu > more > mount ntfs... ) If you have fat32 partition just download and use any dos startdisk. Google for it.

2.) Find out which drive letter is assigned to the windows boot/root partition and navigate to the ...\windows\$NtUninstallKB890859$ folder. Then copy at least the problem file (user32.dll) to its original location...

copy driveletter...\windows\$NtUninstallKB890859$ driveletter...\windows\system32
copy driveletter...\windows\$NtUninstallKB890859$ driveletter...\windows\system32\dllcache

3.) Reboot your system and go to windows update > Setup the specific update (kb890...) to be hidden. Don't worry, you can delete your ie-cache, history ...the hidden-setting will keep being stored (registry).

I'd be intrested if Microsoft corrects the problem

greetings,
Jonny5

[Jonny 5]

@ dyrestraits: Intresting, that there seem to be very few people affected by this problem. I would be intrested, what startup tasks and system you have btw if its similar to mine...:

CPU P4 2.8c HT enabled
Mainboard: P4P800 - 1024 (4x256) single sided non ecc ddr, dual-channel enabled.
Display: Asus v9520 Video Suite (GeforceFX), Terra TV Value
Sound: Creative Soundblaster Live Value (pretty old)
Input: Logitech MX 510 optical, Logitech Cordless Keyboard;

Startup Tasks:
Logitech Utility and Itouch,
Sounblaster Mixer,
Norton AV 2004,
Nvidia Settings,
Speedfan
(Do you have any of these too?)

DirectX: 9.0c
WinXP SP2 Pro

greetings,
Jonny5

[Jonny 5]

Oh, I just saw your banner with your system config
Your mainboard has intel 865PE CHipset?

[PangingJr]

begin to see this problem in newsgroups.
about 5-6 cases in XP general's and most of then are OEM machines, have not yet seen any message in others news groups.

anyway, this's an alternative way to remove the hotfixes that caused XP boot up in either normal or safemode...

Please follow the procedure suggested by microsoft to solve BSOD problem from
the latest windows update. My DELL notebook was crashed suddenly after
updating the new patches. Today morning I tried with this method. It takes
only few minutes - much easier and faster than re-installation.
------------------------------

1. Insert the Windows XP startup disk in your floppy disk drive or insert
the Windows XP CD in the CD drive or in the DVD drive, and then restart your
computer.

Note When you receive the following message, press a key to start your
computer from the Windows XP CD:
Press any key to boot from CD

Note Your computer must be configured to start from the CD drive or the DVD
drive. For more information about how to configure your computer to start
from the CD drive or the DVD drive, see the documentation that came with your
computer or contact the computer manufacturer.
2. When you receive the Welcome to Setup message, press R to start the
Recovery Console.

Note Multiple options will appear on the screen.

3. Select the Windows XP installation in question.

Note You must select a number before you press ENTER, or the computer will
restart. Typically, only the 1: C:\Windows selection is available.

4. If you are prompted to type an administrator password, do so. If you do
not know the administrator password, press ENTER. (Typically, the password is
blank.)

Note You will not be able to continue if you do not have the administrator
password.

5. At the command prompt, type cd $ntuninstallKB.........HERE THE NUMBER OF
THE PATCH.....$\spuninst, and then press ENTER.

Note After you complete this step, you cannot stop the removal process.

6. At the command prompt, type batch spuninst.txt, and then press ENTER.

7. After the Patch is removed, type exit, and then press ENTER oo Uninstall
the Next

[Randy P]

I don't get why this only happens to some machines...

[BWX]

Yeah, very strange, I have that update installed without a problem. And I usually seem to find all those weird windows problems.. or they find me.

[Dyre Straits]

Originally Posted by Jonny 5

Oh, I just saw your banner with your system config
Your mainboard has intel 865PE CHipset?

Sorry, just now caught this question.

No, my chipset is the Intel 875P.

I'm about this close (holds thumb and forefinger together) to backing up everything, reformatting, updating all the Windows Updates possible, and then see if it still occurs prior to installing any actual programs.

[Dyre Straits]

Well, I FINALLY bit the bullet and reformatted the system drive last night. Then I commenced to reinstall Windows XP Pro from the CD that MS sent to me. (Very nice of them, btw!)

As soon as I got Windows installed and got the Internet connection setup, I then started the Update downloads. (I set it up to automatically download, but allow me to choose what and when to install.)

I first allowed it to ONLY install the Windows Installed 3.1. Everything went well with that.

Since then I've completely installed all the current Updates and there is no more problem getting into Windows. Whew!!!

So, the problem HAD to be a bad driver or corrupted registry setting, or some such like situation that kept me from succeeding with this at first.

At least now I know I've got a completely CLEAN install of Windows without any baggage from earlier installations.

It's been a long road, but, very interesting and I'm glad it's come to an end.....for now.

[PangingJr]

ok, good news and glad it's all sorted now.

about last week MS released a new update pack for the Windows Installer 3.1.
this is version 2 of the update, the update file is named - WindowsInstaller-KB893803-v2-x86.exe and after the install version number will be 3.1.4000.2435. this new update is to fix the Windows Installer Error 1931.

the Windows Installer 3.1 (v1) - version number is 3.1.4000.1823.

i don't see any problem so i still using the version 1 of the Windows Installer 3.1.
anyway, you can read more info about this from below KB articles...
- Windows Installer 3.1 (v2) is available
- Windows Installer fails silently after you upgrade to Windows Installer 3.1

[RTRski]

I am SOOOOO GLAD I found this forum and this thread!! I was going crazy with the same sort of thing, although in my case it seems to not be the numbered 890859 fix that several others could 'undo' to correct their problem.

I have a Via-based Ath64 system I built for a friend's daughter's HS graduation, which was completed about 6 weeks ago and has been sitting waiting for delivery which is to be this Sunday. So I thought I'd turn it on today and get it all 'up to date' with the various hotfixes, only to find what others here did, that after a hotfix reboot it would crash prior to the "Welcome" screen.

Performed a repair installation, then reapplied fixes to same effect -- inability to boot -- before finding this screen and learning how to use the Recovery console. First tried uninstalling only that 890859 as I've read has helped for others here, but that still didn't help in my case. Damn. Still, now that I know how to get to Recovery...

Now I've uninstalled ALL the latest fixes using the Recovery console, which has allowed me to restart. Am in the process of installing the fixes ONE AT A TIME in numerical order, restarting after every single one (even if that particular fix doesn't seem to ask me to), to hopefully identify the specific culprit in my case and block that one from ever being installed.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that doing them one at a time will work - maybe its not so much a specific fix as the fact that I was 're-fixing' the same files because I was installing many updates in one swell foop ? <wry grin>

I'll update this or post again when or if I identify "my" culprit.

In one sense I'm glad this happened - because if I hadn't decided to update before delivering this weekend, this would've happened to the recipient her first day of owning a PC, making her doubt how good a builder I am, not to mention leaving her totally trapped: this system has a SATA hard drive on the Via chipset (hence, no native driver support) and also has a SATA DVD/CDRW drive (ditto), USB keyboard, and no floppy. So I had to crack the case and plug in a legacy CDROM, PS2 keyboard and Floppy drive I had laying around just to boot from CD, and then load the 3rd party SATA drivers in order to GET to the "Recovery" options in the first place. (Frankly I'm rethinking delivering the system without any legacy HW, after encountering this issue...)

On the other hand, I'm of course really irate with M$ for somehow allowing updates that hose systems. From perusing the threads others with the problem have had P4 systems on Intel chipsets, so it doesn't sound like its a matter of one particular hardware configuration being to blame.... But maybe its a matter of only those doing a 'lot' of updates at once running into it, like me?

Anyway, thanks again. Y'all are lifesavers!!!

RTRski

[RTRski]

OK, Identified the culprit in my system, at least.

I had the following hotfixes and updates that were all installed at once. If there's no note next to a given number it was just indicated as a 'security update':

873333
885250
885835
885836
886185 (marked as Critical)
887742 (marked as Windows XP Update, not 'security update')
888113
888302
890175
890859 (the one others here indicated borked them)
890923 (IE Cumulative Security Update)
891781
893086

So I start installing them one at a time in Numerical order, NOT necessarily the order they were listed in the "Custom installation" options, as it seemed to sort by name not number (e.g. Critical, then IE Cumulative, then Security, with Windows last...). Rebooted manually after every single one even if the little update indicator didn't ask me to.

As I got down the list, I didn't pay much attention to the remaining numbers, except I'd written them down ahead of time so I only saw after installing 885835 that 885836 'disappeared' from the list of those needing to be installed. Weird, but no reboot issues so far.

890859, the culprit for others here, installed and rebooted fine for me. But the very NEXT one - the Cumulative IE Security Fix, 890923, caused a Generic Host Process Error to pop-up (I sent the debug info to M$, you betcha!!) as soon as the patch was applied. Not a good sign. I should've checked the Event Manager to get more info right then but I restarted anyway. Sure enough, failure to reboot - died before loading Windows. Same symptoms as before - couldn't even boot in safe mode.

So, I did the whole Restore Console thingy to uninstall this one manually. Noticed then that my list now had only 2 numbers left, the 'bad' one and the last one in the list - so another one, 891781, disappeared at one point or another. Installed the last, rebooted, was fine.

Just for giggles, in case it was an order thing, I tried one last time to install Cumulative patch 890923, and this time it didn't cause any error immediately after installing. But it did still prevent a reboot. Bugger. Recovery console again, manual uninistall, rebooted fine - and marked that Focker for "never show me this piece of butt lint again".

Since then I've updated vid drivers and a bunch of other stuff, to no ill effects, restarting often.

Thanks again for the info posted in the thread ahead of me - without that guidance, especially that from Jonny5 and Ctrl-Alt-Del I wouldn't have known how to use the Recovery console to do uninstalls and probably would've been doing "Repair installs" of my OS ad infinitum....

Hope I've added some light to the subject even though it wasn't the same patch for me (maybe the cumulative includes a repeat fix to 890859?), and that a future "Cumulative" security patch which tries to re-apply whatever 890923 did and borks the computer for its recipient, or I'll be over there troubleshooting yet again. At least now I know what to do, thanks to y'all!

[PangingJr]

You're welcome and thanks to you too for posting those info RTRski.
also, welcome to DH.

this below Microsoft KB article is for your infomation...

823836 Removing Windows software updates in the wrong order may cause the operating system to stop functioning

SYMPTOMS
Your operating system may not function correctly or may not function at all after you remove a Microsoft Windows software update by using the Add or Remove Programs tool in Control Panel or by using the Spuninst.exe file. When you remove a Windows software update, you may receive a warning message that is similar to the following:

Setup detected the following programs on your computer:
List of software updates and applications
If software update is removed, these programs may not run correctly. Do you want to continue?

CAUSE
This issue occurs if you remove the Windows software updates from the operating system in the wrong order.

Note To keep the files on the operating system consistent, remove Windows software updates in the opposite order of the order that you installed the updates. Remove the most recently installed Windows software update first, remove the next most recently installed software update next, and then so on.

[RTRski]

...remove Windows software updates in the opposite order of the order that you installed the updates...

I just LOVE M$ non-advice like this.

Is the 'installed order' the numerical order, or the order they're listed in the "updates to be installed" listing? Given different text (Critical vs. Windows XP update vs. Security vs. Cumulative) the listing order isn't necessarily the numerical KB###### order.

All I know is after de-installing every one of them, attempted re-installing in order still borked my system hopelessly with the Cumulative IE update.

Since then there's a new one - 896033 - which an attempt to install will result in an installation failure (but at least no BSOD or inability to boot). So I'm guessing since from the description this one deals with the TCP/IP stack it might 'require' the preceding IE cumulative update to work right....

Ah well, whoever said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome" had never worked with computers...

RTRski

[BWX]

Originally Posted by RTRski

Ah well, whoever said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome" had never worked with computers...

RTRski

LOL- isn't that the truth.