possible ati 'optimisatiion'

coldfrontt · Dec 4, 2004, 01:32 PM

Sadly, I agree.

Zardon · Dec 4, 2004, 01:39 PM

Hey guys how about when I post something saying we take it down a notch we actually do that? the first post right after mine started with an insult.

Lets get debate back into the realms of maturity please, and this is directed at everyone.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Dec 4, 2004, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan666

Neon Cowboy, yes you are are fanboy, but you havn't opened your mined and closed your mouth.

the correct term and descrition is enthuiast, sorry you can call me it all you want i'm not a fanboy. Maybe I come off that way I guess but the Facts are the facts.... no matter how you look at or beleave them... everyone has thier own openion and I don't under stand why people get so upset when some one expesses one you don't agree with... express your openion and move on....
you beleavewhat you belive and I belive what i belive...

Not recently no... let me know when you've spent about 18 hours a day on a pc for 1 year stright... nor the life time i've spent.. pc's are my thing.. I've absorbed an amazeing amount of information.....

Quote:

Actually the complete opposite, all you do is talk of your opinions with out even considering what everyone else has said. There is no denying it because as everyone can see your posts are at least 3x longer that anyone else and they don't contain very much relevent information about the thread. .

relivent to you and relivent to the thread / topic/ disscussion are totally diffrent things....

I try to elaborate to be better under stood, I also tend to respomd to more then one post at one time insted of makeing 10 seprate posts with quotes

Quote:

Also if u think some ones a fan boy just because they own a particular videocard, then you base your facts on very weak evidence.

It shows preferance.That alone can tell you wich comanys card they feel / belive is better. a impartail user useally owns more the one brand IE. ATI & Nvidia cards... When your a fan of something you will always be more apt to promote your *brand* and more apt. to put down the other *brands*.

As you've already guess I prefur ATI for my own reasons, I also dislike nvidia for many reasons such as bussness tatics and ethics. even If I would be interested in buying one of thier cards I abstian... it's a matter of ethics

ATI and Nvidia both put out good cards and the battle between them is tight hice the touchyness I guess if one or the other was a clear leader there would be alot less argueing on forums... they both have thier places

Quote:

FP32 is the way to go, its the standard for OpenGL and it will be for dx10, so Nvidia do have a technical advantage over Ati for future software titles, but they just are implementing it at the wrong time so they have to compensate with other methods. I think nvidia has a much better gpu (N40 vs R420) if the can have on par performance with nearly the same specs (16x1 pixel, 6x vertex) with N40 running at aprox 80% the clock speed as R420.

But that speed is delt threw massive drivers optumzations and thew developer side nvidia card specfic optumzations... and there are tests in wich even a R420 beats or meats duel 6800U's clearly with the excpetion of ment to played or opengl games

Another big problem with nvidia is partail support. For example partial DX9 support with DX 8.1 fallbacks...partail DX9C / PS 3.0 support... not cool

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfrontt

Neon, you're an *XXCENSORED FORUM RULESXX*. 3dfx went down because they tried to produce cards themselves, and they were behind in the curve. see this review I googled at random.

http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardw...eviews/2509/1/

which pits your 5500 against the geforce 2 GTS. Not that will change your mind.

Well your forgetiing thats one 5500, thats not two 5500's in SLI so you can add about 50-80% to the 3dfx scores...

3DFX never really got to ship thier 6XXX line (wich the were on te brink of), wich was even faster... even though there are a few floating around....

fogot about SLI didn't you

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfrontt

I was building and selling systems at that time, as well as gaming, and continually benched new cards cards as they came out. I'm not saying they were crap, or even very far behind, and were miles ahead of ATI and the S4Savage, which were the other players at the time. But they were falling behind, and losing much revenue lost from not licensing their chips as they had before. Nvidia put them out of business by licensing a better product to a lot more manufacturers, not by buying them to close them down as you so foolishly allude to.

(Wich reminds me the rule of thumb that started back then
that was nvidia was faster ATI had much better IQ...)

So behind the curve? so far that nvidia intoduced thier years old technoligy into their entire Geforce FX line

so are you saying nvidia is far behind? they seem to be doing quiet well..
especally with thier nex 6XXX series and thier new relliance on SLI (again 3DFX technoilgy) to help pave thier way ahead...

not bad tech from late 1990's and y2k being used in 2005 and beyond
I have to say they were ahead of thier time....

maybe thats why nvidia bought them out, out right in late 2000

I leave you with a excpet of a artical.... They had several good reasons to buy them out.. If they were you said they were nvidia wouldn't have bought them. They had things nvidia wanted clear an simple....

Quote:

Graphics chipmaker Nvidia bought out one-time rival 3dfx Interactive on Friday, another landmark in the consolidation of the graphics hardware industry.

Under the terms of the agreement, Nvidia will give 3dfx $70 million in cash and 1 million shares of common stock for the patents, brand names, and current inventory relating to 3dfx's graphics chip business. In addition, a patent infringement suit between the two companies will be dismissed when the transaction is closed.

Nvidia's purchase of 3dfx is the latest in a series of convulsions in the extremely competitive and often unprofitable graphics hardware business.

coldfrontt · Dec 4, 2004, 05:30 PM

Neon...no 3dfx product after the Voodoo 2 did SLI...as there was only 1 AGP port (remember those?)
And Nvidias Scalable Link Interface, as described here:
SLI stands for Scalable Link Interface. It is a high performance technology that allows users to combine and scale graphics performance by having multiple NVIDIA GPUs in a single system. SLI works by intelligently scaling geometry and fill rate performance for two (or more) identical boards.

There difference in the way the technology differs from the Voodoo 2 SLI.

First, 3dfx SLI was implemented on a shared bus using PCI. The PCI bus delivered ~100MB/sec of bus throughput, while PCI-Express is a point-to-point interface that can deliver ~60x the total bandwidth of PCI.
Second, 3dfx SLI performed interleaving of scan lines, and combined in the analogue domain, which could result in image quality issues due to DAC differences and other factors.
Third, 3dfx Voodoo technology also only performed triangle setup “down” the graphics pipe, leaving the geometry workload for the CPU, therefore 3dfx SLI hence only scaled simple texture fill rate, and then used inter-frame scalability.

NVIDIA SLI technology is PCI-Express based, uses a completely digital frame combining method that has no impact on image quality, can scale geometry performance, and supports a variety of scalability algorithms to best match the scalability method with application demands, as described by NVIDIA’s Director of Product PR, EMEA, Luciano Alibrandi, is not quite the same technology.

yes banging my head against the wall DOES feel good...

The_Neon_Cowboy · Dec 5, 2004, 02:28 AM

I'd argue, but i'm tired of this thread already i'm moveing on...

we need to chill with the offtopic discussions anyways

nookadum · Dec 9, 2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Another big problem with nvidia is partail support. For example partial DX9 support with DX 8.1 fallbacks...partail DX9C / PS 3.0 support... not cool

Partial support? Falling back to D3D 8.* IS part of the DX specification. Why utilize newer code to do simpler functions when the old code does it more efficiently?

Perhaps you are right about the partial support, but they support OpenGL/Linux a LOT better than ATI does ATM. If they would stop with this CCC bullshit...

The_Neon_Cowboy · Dec 9, 2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nookadum

Partial support? Falling back to D3D 8.* IS part of the DX specification. Why utilize newer code to do simpler functions when the old code does it more efficiently?

Perhaps you are right about the partial support, but they support OpenGL/Linux a LOT better than ATI does ATM. If they would stop with this CCC bullshit...

Why don't offer full support? good question

Of couse older direct X is faster but the so is the IQ much lower. So in effect they are still offering slower then ATI's FPS for lower IQ!!!

i mean it sad when they don't full support DX 9,DX 9a,DX 9c, Not even full PS3 supprt only partial pixel shader 3 support! just the faster parts

I mean heck Dx8, games run really fastfor ex hl2 in Direct X 7, of couse the effects suck and the IQ is bad but hey it runs alot faster

Well it seems nvidia is waiting / delaying releaseing thier own .net CP soultion to keep up with ati after seeing peoples responce to haveing to load .net and crying .... seems nvidia will wait.. too bad for them

CCC RULEZ , mis information, and noobs suck

rushko · Dec 9, 2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfrontt

Neon...no 3dfx product after the Voodoo 2 did SLI...as there was only 1 AGP port (remember those?)
And Nvidias Scalable Link Interface, as described here:
SLI stands for Scalable Link Interface. It is a high performance technology that allows users to combine and scale graphics performance by having multiple NVIDIA GPUs in a single system. SLI works by intelligently scaling geometry and fill rate performance for two (or more) identical boards.

There difference in the way the technology differs from the Voodoo 2 SLI.

First, 3dfx SLI was implemented on a shared bus using PCI. The PCI bus delivered ~100MB/sec of bus throughput, while PCI-Express is a point-to-point interface that can deliver ~60x the total bandwidth of PCI.
Second, 3dfx SLI performed interleaving of scan lines, and combined in the analogue domain, which could result in image quality issues due to DAC differences and other factors.
Third, 3dfx Voodoo technology also only performed triangle setup “down” the graphics pipe, leaving the geometry workload for the CPU, therefore 3dfx SLI hence only scaled simple texture fill rate, and then used inter-frame scalability.

NVIDIA SLI technology is PCI-Express based, uses a completely digital frame combining method that has no impact on image quality, can scale geometry performance, and supports a variety of scalability algorithms to best match the scalability method with application demands, as described by NVIDIA’s Director of Product PR, EMEA, Luciano Alibrandi, is not quite the same technology.

yes banging my head against the wall DOES feel good...

heh, it is an idea that matters so SLI is an 3DFX idea along with FSAA=fullscreenantialiasing and a lots of other quality stuff that nVidia got with the acquireing of 3DFX.

gram_vaz · Dec 10, 2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

So he stole / reposted this info from guys on TotalRetards.com AKA www.guru3d.com ) great

thats nice

the same people that think that the DNA drivers are "orgional"

and and KillerSneak RoCKZors 1111!1

Take anything said @ guru3d says with a truck load of salt....

hi, though i agree with most of what u said i take issue with this little snipe at guru3d. i'm a regular at guru3d and i've found it to be some of the most fun and informative forums i've ever visited. sure, we have our share of idiots but nowhere near the amount i've seen on other sites.

and noone i've seen on guru3d thinks dna are "original" or "good" though i don't know why u take issue with that. most ppl at guru prefer the ati catalyst drivers or the omegas.

Zardon · Dec 10, 2004, 09:42 AM

I think this thread has ran its course guys, closed.

Dec 4, 2004, 05:30 PM	#34
coldfrontt DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: canada Posts: 248 Rep Power: 0	Neon...no 3dfx product after the Voodoo 2 did SLI...as there was only 1 AGP port (remember those?) And Nvidias Scalable Link Interface, as described here: SLI stands for Scalable Link Interface. It is a high performance technology that allows users to combine and scale graphics performance by having multiple NVIDIA GPUs in a single system. SLI works by intelligently scaling geometry and fill rate performance for two (or more) identical boards. There difference in the way the technology differs from the Voodoo 2 SLI. First, 3dfx SLI was implemented on a shared bus using PCI. The PCI bus delivered ~100MB/sec of bus throughput, while PCI-Express is a point-to-point interface that can deliver ~60x the total bandwidth of PCI. Second, 3dfx SLI performed interleaving of scan lines, and combined in the analogue domain, which could result in image quality issues due to DAC differences and other factors. Third, 3dfx Voodoo technology also only performed triangle setup “down” the graphics pipe, leaving the geometry workload for the CPU, therefore 3dfx SLI hence only scaled simple texture fill rate, and then used inter-frame scalability. NVIDIA SLI technology is PCI-Express based, uses a completely digital frame combining method that has no impact on image quality, can scale geometry performance, and supports a variety of scalability algorithms to best match the scalability method with application demands, as described by NVIDIA’s Director of Product PR, EMEA, Luciano Alibrandi, is not quite the same technology. yes banging my head against the wall DOES feel good...

Dec 5, 2004, 02:28 AM	#35
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	I'd argue, but i'm tired of this thread already i'm moveing on... we need to chill with the offtopic discussions anyways __________________

Dec 4, 2004, 01:32 PM	#31
coldfrontt DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: canada Posts: 248 Rep Power: 0	Sadly, I agree.

Dec 4, 2004, 01:39 PM	#32
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Hey guys how about when I post something saying we take it down a notch we actually do that? the first post right after mine started with an insult. Lets get debate back into the realms of maturity please, and this is directed at everyone.

Dec 10, 2004, 09:42 AM	#40
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	I think this thread has ran its course guys, closed.