Mayro

I think the last time I used CCC was back when 6.3 or 6.4 came out and I would like to try it again, but I still have this feeling that it will be the same as the last time I used it.

What do you gain with CCC that you can not do with ATI tray tools?

H3X4D3C1M4L

3D Preview, Overdrive, skins... stuff like that

Cube623

i have 6.6 cat and i still use ATT as the CCC is just too much of a resource hog

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The_Neon_Cowboy

not this arguement gain..... Shudder ...

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Dyre Straits

I think the continued discussion re: CCC is very healthy. ATi need to get feedback and opinions about it.

Personally, there are options not included in CCC that I find very readily in other apps like ATT. If ATI could somehow provide these same options in their own controls, I'd be very happy.

All that aside, CCC still takes up considerable memory and still takes too long to access....IMHO.

So, for my own part, it's just still too cumbersome and limited to be of consistent use. I do, however, give it a whirl now and again to see if anything has improved. Usually, it's off my system after one day as I like too much what the other apps do.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

It really not constructive though. 99% of it comes to a CCC rocks / CCC sucks match.

I'd like to hear tough what ATT has the CCC doesn't? That can't be added through
existing plugin's like rage3d tweak.

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Dyre Straits

So, if you have to add something to CCC with ragetweaks, (which I used at one time or another) why use CCC at all? It seems redundant to me to have more than one app to accomplish what you want to do.

ATT really has some nice options and features all by itself. I can do anything I want to with only the one app.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Well for example I can use overdrive 3 to do any overclocking. If you don't have
a card that get this feature you can use rage3d tweak to add a overclocking panel
in CCC.

Also of note: .net 3.0 pre release is out

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Dyre Straits

Although I can use ATT to overclock, that's not my main passion.

I do like that I can have a popup every few minutes to tell me what temperatures I have, and how much memory is being used. I also use the FPS monitor in 3D games. And, the game profiles is such a breeze to setup it's not even funny.

But, don't get me wrong, I'm really not dissing CCC. I use it on my second rig with my AIW card. BUT, I don't play games on that rig. It's mostly used for capturing video and downloading files while I use this one to play and work with.

In fact, CAT 6.6 w/CCC and the latest MMC 9.14 are installed on that one now.

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EnPassant

The CCC has improved, but not enough IMHO. The fact that ATI itsself doesn't offer an alternative is really quite sad. I think their banking on everybody buying into Vista. Considering it could be a year or more before Vista is ready for prime time!, I really dont see enough changes right now to make it worth anybodys effort yet. Only time will tell.

X1800XTTOP

The thing is, i´ve always been happy with the CCC. But as of late, i´ve been having the most wierd problems that makes the CCC almost useless. Well, settings doesnt work. Here is my story;

I noticed Oblivion was lagging, wich it doesn´t even with 4xAA is enabled. Well, the 6.6 drivers don´t have the chuck drivers in them so they should be faster, not slower. So i loaded my "benching save" to see whats up. I was now getting 37fps. With 4xAA/16xAF, i used to get 41fps.

Something is worng, i thought. So i disable my AA/AF settings in CCC, but fps is still the same. Then i notice the road are still looking nice (16xAF is on). I go back and cant understand what i´ve done wrong. So i "enable" 2xAA and 8xHQAF instead. I load the save, i now got 51fps... BUT no AF was applyed at all. Also note that AA didn´t anytime during these "tests". The case was the same in other games. CCC was applying the wrong settings, wich was really frustrating.

My point is, you cant trust the CCC. You have to check ingame weather AA/AF is really applyed or not. That´s shouldnt be the case with the only official app available to change settings with. It took me an hour (several reboots and a driver reinstall) too understand that it was simply the CCC refusing my requests. What good does the CCC bring if it isn´t able to change my settings?

I´ve now set my settings to 4xAA with AAA enabled and set to performance. AF is set to 16 with HQ enabled. Most games work but oblivion is still taking a 14fps hit when any AA is enabled in the CCC (even though it doesnt work in that game).

Retarp

CCC is still clunky, buggy, and a resource hog. If I didn't have to use CCC to get overdrive I wouldn't have it installed. Half the time, as the post above me says, CCC will not set the settings I request. I've also had it crash setting up overdrive/monitoring temps.

It takes close to a minute to set my AA/AF level in CCC when I can do it in about 10 seconds via the tray icon.


That being said, I love the tray icon ATI provides. Always works and sets the correct AA/AF/VSYNC/CATALYST AI setttings unlike CCC. They driver team should put the overdrive controls in the tray.

I also wish there was a fan control option anywhere in the drivers so I didn't have to use a 3rd party app to get my card to run cooler than 95*C.


One last point that really makes me mad, why heck are there advertisements in the CCC? I already bought your product, how it performs will lead me back to you, not that you have $20 off on this product blah blah blah.

The_Neon_Cowboy

vista is supposed to be out for the cristmas season.

Why would they waste time money and effort to put out two products to do the
same thing? Why don't you take all the money from your pocket and burn it? Well
why would they burn their money?

Why would they update whats been dead and not updated for a year! Before they
ended up stopping making sets with it. Why would they make something new when
there is nothing wrong nor a need to.... CCC has advantages for them and for you.

Seriously you guy make me think they should tell the ATT make he must stop and
change it so you can only use CCC. Just so your forced to give it a fair chance...

Fan control is not for noobs nor even the average or everyday user.
Thus SHOULD not be added or they be dealing DEAD cards being
RMA'd due to user not knowing what thier doing. And you wondering
why that new card costs so much. I could just see some puting the fan
to it lowest then gameing and wonderin about thier pretty artifacts and
lines that won't go way... So something need to be left t 3rd party tools
as again most users won't tuch them. So it better all around...

My cards virtually never spins up and is NEVER that hot. 90C is the max normal
operating temp over that is problematic. Like if you don't have proper air flow in
your case. Making the fan run faster is just a band-aid. When the cure is Better
airflow and passably a lower room temp.

Because it works. I'm sure those who enjoyed saveing the $20 felt diffrently....

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EnPassant

I have been reading it will be out first quarter of 07, eather way. I wont buy it right away and will let the more adventurous work the bugs out first, hence about a year before its ready for prime time.



By not providing an alternitive isn't that exactly what their doing?. Its been a year now, It should not feel like a Beta still is my only point.

Dyre Straits

Neon,

I've given CCC a fair play. And, I've been using ATI cards for years.

You make me think that maybe you helped develop CCC due to how defensive you are of it.

Simply put, I don't like it. It takes up too much memory and takes too long to come up when called for. In fact, I can bring up ATT and have all my settings made in the length of time it takes CCC just to show up.

As for asking guys to stop making 3rd party stuff, I think that's hogwash. The main reason there's a good deal of folks making 3rd party stuff is because ATI haven't come up with a better and easier solution....and the settings that the hardcore gamers need to tweak their system.

I also think you're wrong about people not wanting to touch 3rd party drivers. I've been using Omega's, for example, for years and years now. Simply because they make my games play better. No other reason. And, you must be missing out on all the outcry when his drivers don't come out on time.

Maybe you should give the 3rd party stuff a chance before you go off half-cocked again with all your feathers ruffled.

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BWX

Is there custom resolutions built in yet?

Refresh rate overrides for each resolution built in yet?

Custom profiles for games yet?

Coolbits 2.0 type features? (Custom manual OC)

All this in classic, non CCC control panel? (for comparison)

When all that is included.. then they will be up to par with their competition.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Well alot pf people will or will use the 180 day free trail. Not to mention new
systems will be shiping with vista.

I've used it since beta , I know what and how it has changed. Haveing useing
the oficalls and various betas. You forget where that APP has come from go
back to the 1st public version of CCC and see for your self. To say it like beta
is to say all windows and all software is like "beta" especailly ATT then

You have a alternative don't use a control panel . Why waste time, money
and effort an raise the cost of products becouse a grup of users that simply like
the OLD CP even if the new one wass a billion times better. One of the largest
threads and arguments on the topic was from a user who NEVER used CCC and
refused to becouse of .net. Others who tried it once and never again. Thes people
are quick to run in advide other not to use it, call it names, and make claims.

I used to far more then any of you nay sayers. I don't warm up to it at 1st and after
many chages I use it and stuck to it.

If your that worried about 8-12 MB of ram? geeeze! AS you don't not count the CCC window open size. But the everyday foot print.

I'm saying it take the 3rd party tool maker to be nocked out for a while. I'm not a hardcore gamer (/joke). I only game like 45 - 120 hours a week max. CCC does all I need it too....

I didn't say 3rd party drivers I said 3rd party tools.

No, need need thier not "standard" Why would you need to override the refresh?
Set it in you game or windows and force the res/ refresh. Mostly people only play
at one setting. Like 1024X768 or in 1280x1024.
umm, havn't profiles been in there for so long.
They give you overdrive 3 wich is "safe" and warenteed overclocking, to do other
wise you willing to pay $50 to $100 extra for your card due to the cards others RMA'ed
from o/cing. Wich they would be liable when you tune you new X1900 to 1 ghz
and wonder why it exploded. It would increse the number of over clockers, which
HURTS ATi's bottom line as people overclock instead of buying a better card. Then
again RMA those abused cards ad get new ones.

Classic? classic CP hasn't been updated for like 2 years now. Also NV is NV and
ATI is ATI.They both have things the other does not. IMO: NV cp kinda sucks
sure there diffent options but it not that easy to navigate to me.

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BWX

For me it is a lot easier than the CCC.. much more simplified. I cannot imagine anyone saying the CC is less complicated.
Also I use all of those options that ATI does not offer. I am sure many other CRT users do too.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

well in thier CP I feel like a lost child, I find it hard to use, must be what it feels
like for those NV users, and those who refused to upgrade past the old CP looking
at CCC. Or never warmed up to it. A CP is a CP.... People act as if they run it and
only it all day long when most people don't open it nce in a blue moon. No real
need to...

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Retarp

They already allow overclocking via overdrive. What would be so hard about having a more aggresivie fan profile when enabling it?

Case is not the problem. Room temp is ~27*C(80*F). Runs at the same temp (90-98*C) as it did when I had it in my open sideless water cooled cpu case I built. I ran Quake IV with the CCC open on the 2nd monitor so I could watch the temps. It would rocket up to 95*C within a couple of minutes and then the fan would spin up a bit, it would fall to 90*C and the fan backed down again. Back up to 95*C and repeat until card crashed. Set the clocks to default and it still ran at 95*C all day, just didn't crash. I manually set the fan to ~80% then it runs at 65*C!!!!!!!

I didn't shell out $400+ of my money to get a sales pitch when I setup my card.


The card itself is a beast and it was genius to pipe the air out the back(only reason I didn't get a Nvidia). I've never had any complaints about ATI hardware(back to the 8500 days), but the drivers have become such a PITA to use in the last year It took the better part on an hour to configure the HDTV output for 1080i -the help file was useless.

OH, the ATI drivers are not compatable with AVAST antivirus and my SATA controller. They will blue screen in game with a ATI2XXX.dll error. Just weird.

The_Neon_Cowboy

They allow overclocking via over drive and you pay EXTRA so you can have that feature
buy buying for example an 9600 XT vs a 9600 PRO. Now with the X850 (I think) and
above (x1k do) have overdrive 3 , which is SAFE overclocking, it's thermally controlled.
Meaning as you temps go up your clock go down so you don't toast your card.

The fan already provides a standard lower spin up seed and it increases as the temp
rises automatically. So why would they need to control of it??? Why would you want to
listen to it at full speed? Which is crazy, add a fan or two, blow hole what ever to your
case, Buy / get / use an air conditioner to get the room temp down to normal,
an call it a day.

Temp comes Comes down to 1) room temp 2) air flow. My cards far cooler
then yours? Wonder why? room temp is like 75 to 78F which is the normal "room temp"
for a liveing environment. Two 80mm fans in the front, one in the back, a blow whole
on the side and on the top. My temps never get that high...

Hot air isn't puped out that back. Thats an intake, pulling cooler outside the case air,
the heat is then dumped into your case, wich mean your cases airflow must get it back
out... hover you hand near the VGA / DVI conector of your card you feel no heat. Hover
you hand inside you case near the back of the cooler and feel the warmth...

Wel with with
1) I've ran avast avast
2) the jetway board I had in my G/F rig ran the onboard grahpics,
then a X1600XT and a SATA hard drive. the same ULI M1573 south
brige and SATA.
....No problems.......

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Retarp

Quoted for idiocy. I'm done talking to you.

CDsDontBurn

lol....i have the 6.1 drivers installed w/CCC. CCC doesn't even want to open up . i go to open it up, and it just makes my system hang. i'd rather use the CP which hasn't been updated in "2yrs." like neon said and a 3rd party program for OCing. but i could also get all my options from ATT like everybody else is doing and avoid CP and CCC all together.

BTW, i do agree w/BWX on the matter of nVidia's CP is much more user friendly . much simpler, doesn't consume crazy amount of resources, faster, etc. that would be one major reason why i would go back to nVidia, and totally drop ATI . of course, i'd have to get a better card than what i have now .

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