cat 6.8's are out

ronnn · Aug 19, 2006, 11:11 AM

On my x1900gt 3dm06 has remained the same. So the release notes were not accurate for me anyways? Oh well not a fun game anyways.

Other wise drivers seem nice and stable and no complaints.

X1800XTTOP · Aug 19, 2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnn

On my x1900gt 3dm06 has remained the same. So the release notes were not accurate for me anyways? Oh well not a fun game anyways.

Other wise drivers seem nice and stable and no complaints.

The release notes mention that youll see the improvments with Anti Aliasing enabled. I believe you need the professional version of 3dmark06 to be able to enable AA.

ronnn · Aug 19, 2006, 11:58 AM

Oops, I should learn to read! The weird thing is 3dm06 reports the memory as being 262mb. Cats 6.7 it reported correctly as 256. Seems strange.

km52 · Aug 19, 2006, 01:25 PM

OpenGL games still crash-to-desktop, as they do with Cat 6.7. Going back to 6.6

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 19, 2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky

Almost 5 hours after the 6.8 release and still no 64bit support.

This seems to happen every driver releasse, the 64bit drivers are either posted in the wrong spot or not posted at all.

Sorry, should be fixed now.

Ananas · Aug 19, 2006, 04:15 PM

Greetings,

6.8 forces my system to immediately reboot when trying to play Links 2003 (v1.05) on a X850XT (AGP) and this hasn't been fixed either. According to this thread, there is definately a problem with the Catalysts and Bob De-Interlacing. Now I am back to 6.6 and everything (including Links 2003) is working fine again besides a pretty choppy performance with EA's Fifa World Cup 2006 every minute or so. Please, dear Catalyst Maker, take a look into these issues.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

Fiebre · Aug 19, 2006, 09:20 PM

On my computer with an x1900GT the new 64 bit 6.8 casuses my computer to restart as soon as it boots up. I had to choose the start up with last good config in the boot menu to restore my comp.

Edit: Am using Asus A8N-E Nforce 4 Mobo

JCOTV64 · Aug 19, 2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by km52

OpenGL games still crash-to-desktop, as they do with Cat 6.7. Going back to 6.6

Exactly whichs games?

km52 · Aug 19, 2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCOTV64

Exactly whichs games?

I've tried Doom3 1.3, Quake2 3.20, RtCW and GLMark, both latest version.
After double-clicking the icon on the desktop, there's a plain gray screen for ~2 seconds and then i'm back at the desktop.
With Cat 6.6 and below, everything's working as it's supposed to work.

YogiYahooeys · Aug 20, 2006, 06:39 AM

I have an X800 Pro. The DVI out/dual monitor behavior is acting much differently in this release.

Previously in using 6.6, when I would switch to 1152X648 resolution and clone the picture on my 50" Hitachi HDTV, the HDTV would fill the screen fully and beautifully and my old 19" Samsung CRT Monitor would pan left to right. It was a nice combination.

Now, when I use that resolution, the HDTV looks the same; however, the monitor behavior is bizarre. The aspect ratio is screwed up (it's streched too tall) and none of the monitor attribute changes make much of any difference. Also, the monitor screen now pans in every direction, up down left and right...

Does anyone have any ideas on what changed and how I can regain the previous behavior? Is this a bug or a 'feature' of the new drivers?

Thanks!!

YY

Hapatingjaky · Aug 20, 2006, 08:21 AM

Well I've finished my low level format and have everything re-installed and running fine. So far here are my results:

6.8 compared to 6.7
Doom 3 = -2FPS
Quake 4 = -4FPS
HalfLife 2 = -6FPS
HalfLife 2 Episode 1 = -6FPS
Farcry 64bit = No change Blue Hue bug with AAA
Fear = 100% Below 25FPS bug... Stupid Vivendi/Monolith/Sierra
World Of Warcraft = Same graphic bug with AAA same as farcry
Battlefield 2 = +3FPS
Unreal Tournamet 2004 64bit = -5FPS

WDM driver install froze on 2 systems at the end of the install, install was still sucessful though.

System takes longer to boot with these drivers installed, disabled ATI Smart and ATI Hotkey Poller and the CCC from Windows bootup no change. Issue seems to only occur in Windows X64bit. Takes +15 seconds longer.

These are a pretty poor set of drivers.

AndyMutz · Aug 20, 2006, 10:12 AM

some test results on my system (a64 san diego @ 2,85 ghz, x1800xt 256mb @ 690/790 mhz):

3dmark06, 05 and 03 (all standard tests): no difference
aquamark3 (standard test): -2700 points

doom3 (via timedemo): +2 fps
fear (standard test): +5 fps minimum

call of duty 2 (my own timedemo): +2,5 fps
prey (my own timedemo): +7,5 fps

-andy-

X1800XTTOP · Aug 20, 2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky

System takes longer to boot with these drivers installed, disabled ATI Smart and ATI Hotkey Poller and the CCC from Windows bootup no change.

I believe that when you disable the hotkeypoller, the GPU cant get into 3dmode anymore. Meaning its running at slower clockspeeds when you are playing games.

Dalton Sleeper · Aug 20, 2006, 02:53 PM

Oblivion crashes for me too, often after 5-10 minutes or when browsing my inventory

, I get 2 different error messages but mostly the game hangs.

synergy12 · Aug 20, 2006, 03:17 PM

-5 FPS in Counter-Strike Source... ATi really needs to look into the source engine and do some optimizing...

X1800XTTOP · Aug 20, 2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalton Sleeper

Oblivion crashes for me too, often after 5-10 minutes or when browsing my inventory

, I get 2 different error messages but mostly the game hangs.

What does the error messages say? I played 2 hours of oblivion with HDR+AA (using chuckpatch 6.8) with everything max@1280X1024 with no crash, error or even slowdown whatsoever (doing the main quest now - what a great game

)

Anyways, the error messages might help someone figure out your problem. Also, do you have the oblivion patch installed?

Hapatingjaky · Aug 20, 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X1800XTTOP

I believe that when you disable the hotkeypoller, the GPU cant get into 3dmode anymore. Meaning its running at slower clockspeeds when you are playing games.

No I only disabled it to test the startup time issue. And not disabling it does not lower FPS.

Dalton Sleeper · Aug 20, 2006, 08:32 PM

The first was a send error report... (in swedish) and something in oblivion.exe. The other one was that the memory can not be read. The third was just a lock up and may be caused by the drivers, didn't work with CTRL+ALT+DELETE eighter. When you changed drivers did your video options reset in oblivion? they did for me.

It sounds like a memory problem but it didn't crash last time I played the game, but then with older gfx drivers and an older version of oblivion. Maybe I should reinstall my game, patch it and try again.

Another strange thing is that the english patch patches everything besides oblivion launcher (a file with the same name...something), but the uk patches the launcher. I do have the original game but doesn't know what language it is. I bought it here in sweden and here you never know if it's US, UK or the Europe version

Uppdated:
Uninstalled, installed and patched with 1.1 uk and after 2 min the game crashed with a send error message

X1800XTTOP · Aug 20, 2006, 09:42 PM

Well i bought it from sweden too. I have the latest patch installed, although i really dont know what patch i used. I think i downloaded it from fz.se.

Also, close any programs you might have running in the background. Programs like Xfire has been known to crash down the game.

And yes, it did reset my video settings. You could try deleting your config. Go to mina dokument - my games - oblivion - and delete the "oblivion.ini" file, the game will generate a new one for you.

Also, try loading an older save. I know that the game crashed on me once when i got corrupted savefiles. The game would crash to desktop as soon as i even moved my mousepointer over the corrupt save. Another one caused the game to crash after 1-3 minutes of gameplay. Scroll down the list and load a save thats really old (just for testing).

Hapatingjaky · Aug 20, 2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X1800XTTOP

Also, close any programs you might have running in the background. Programs like Xfire has been known to crash down the game.

XFire was sent by Satan to enslave and destroy mankind. It will kill any PC game when its running in the background.

Babalou · Aug 20, 2006, 10:19 PM

World of Warcraft still broken....

Dalton Sleeper · Aug 20, 2006, 10:26 PM

Ok, I resumed on my old savegames from the first version through the betas and now the 1.1, I really don't want to start from the beginning but if I have to I will. This time I ran my 4800+ on default and I could play for about 20 minutes, then I had a look at the map and it crashes with the send error message

Not so sure this is a driver bug, more likely a game bug.

Uppdated:
Changed back to omega 6.7, everything works fine, didn't crash once even after 4 hours

, something was wrong with cat 6.8.

Zenoth · Aug 21, 2006, 07:58 AM

I've seen reports on the Elder Scrolls forums (for Oblivion), concerning crashing issues with Catalyst 6.8. You're not alone out there mate. I too had to go back with Catalyst 6.7. Very same crashing issue. All other games were fine (with 6.8), only affected game was Oblivion.

Sobek · Aug 21, 2006, 08:39 AM

So...chuck patch you say.

And where can we download it?

X1800XTTOP · Aug 21, 2006, 10:08 AM

Here; http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...estionID=21960

Dalton Sleeper · Aug 21, 2006, 03:19 PM

No luck with oblivion and 6.8 again, used drivercleaner and cat uninstaller as always (Elder Scrolls forum), but newer version of drivercleaner this time. This was the last try for cat 6.8.

Unbornchild · Aug 21, 2006, 09:21 PM

Still using Cat 6.3.

Because:

Since Cat 6.4, rendering performance in Tomb Raider: Legend dropped back.

Here what i mean (on tombraiderforums.com): [color=#22229c]ATI Catalyst 6.8 out. But Catalyst 6.3 still is the best for Legend..[/color]
Notifying Ati Feedback crew (since 6.4) had no effect.

Each new Catalyst promises better performance in other games i play, that's nice to know. But why should one game drop in performance?

Zenoth · Aug 21, 2006, 10:07 PM

I've tried again with Cat 6.8 (must be my 6th or 7th try now, I'm getting tired doing all the steps and rebooting and so on, I'll stop right there). Still crashes. I ... don't ... get ... it. Most are fine with it (Oblivion + Cat 6.8), and some others are not. Why ? I just can't figure out.

I'll keep Cat 6.7 installed until maybe 6.9 or 6.10, which I hope will fix the crashing.

And I do hope that someone from ATi will read this and try to investigate the problem.

Zenoth · Aug 22, 2006, 03:09 AM

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...ic=540768&st=0

That's the forum I was talking about, it's a thread, in Oblivion board, talking about the issues with 6.8.

petri1 · Aug 23, 2006, 09:58 PM

that´s why i don´t buy new GFX card since so many have problems with games ever since the X1K cards came.

so i´ll wiat for ...say X2k i guess DX10 and all that

so i bought oblivion for Xbox 360 better performance than on my PC and it´s beautifuk even on a CRT TV well HD LCD would make it look even better

wel guess i´ll wait for 6.9´s then

Aug 19, 2006, 09:20 PM	#37
Fiebre DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Problems On my computer with an x1900GT the new 64 bit 6.8 casuses my computer to restart as soon as it boots up. I had to choose the start up with last good config in the boot menu to restore my comp. Edit: Am using Asus A8N-E Nforce 4 Mobo

Aug 20, 2006, 08:21 AM	#41
Hapatingjaky DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2006 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 140 Rep Power: 0	Well I've finished my low level format and have everything re-installed and running fine. So far here are my results: 6.8 compared to 6.7 Doom 3 = -2FPS Quake 4 = -4FPS HalfLife 2 = -6FPS HalfLife 2 Episode 1 = -6FPS Farcry 64bit = No change Blue Hue bug with AAA Fear = 100% Below 25FPS bug... Stupid Vivendi/Monolith/Sierra World Of Warcraft = Same graphic bug with AAA same as farcry Battlefield 2 = +3FPS Unreal Tournamet 2004 64bit = -5FPS WDM driver install froze on 2 systems at the end of the install, install was still sucessful though. System takes longer to boot with these drivers installed, disabled ATI Smart and ATI Hotkey Poller and the CCC from Windows bootup no change. Issue seems to only occur in Windows X64bit. Takes +15 seconds longer. These are a pretty poor set of drivers. __________________ Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800, Asus Striker, OCZ 4096MB PC2-6400 EL Platinum XTC Edition DDR2, XFX 8800GTX, Creative Labs Soundblaster X-FI Elite Pro, Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATAII NCQ Enabled 16MB Cache Raid 0, Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATAII NCQ Enabled 16MB Cache Raid 0, LiteOn SHW-160P6S 16x16 DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive, Logitech G7 Gaming Mouse, Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard, Thermaltake Armor Chassis With 4x120MM Blue LED ICAGE Fans and 2x80MM Blue LED Fans, OCZ GameXtreme 700WATT PSU, Windows XP Professional X64 Edition & Windows Vista Premium X64, ViewSonic VX2234WM, Creative Gigaworks S750 7.1 Speaker System.

Aug 20, 2006, 02:53 PM	#44
Dalton Sleeper Programmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Västermo (Eskilstuna/Sweden) Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Oblivion crashes for me too, often after 5-10 minutes or when browsing my inventory , I get 2 different error messages but mostly the game hangs. __________________ Neverwinter Nights: The Best Game Ever

Aug 20, 2006, 08:32 PM	#48
Dalton Sleeper Programmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Västermo (Eskilstuna/Sweden) Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	The first was a send error report... (in swedish) and something in oblivion.exe. The other one was that the memory can not be read. The third was just a lock up and may be caused by the drivers, didn't work with CTRL+ALT+DELETE eighter. When you changed drivers did your video options reset in oblivion? they did for me. It sounds like a memory problem but it didn't crash last time I played the game, but then with older gfx drivers and an older version of oblivion. Maybe I should reinstall my game, patch it and try again. Another strange thing is that the english patch patches everything besides oblivion launcher (a file with the same name...something), but the uk patches the launcher. I do have the original game but doesn't know what language it is. I bought it here in sweden and here you never know if it's US, UK or the Europe version Uppdated: Uninstalled, installed and patched with 1.1 uk and after 2 min the game crashed with a send error message __________________ Neverwinter Nights: The Best Game Ever Last edited by Dalton Sleeper; Aug 20, 2006 at 09:29 PM.

Aug 20, 2006, 10:26 PM	#52
Dalton Sleeper Programmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Västermo (Eskilstuna/Sweden) Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Ok, I resumed on my old savegames from the first version through the betas and now the 1.1, I really don't want to start from the beginning but if I have to I will. This time I ran my 4800+ on default and I could play for about 20 minutes, then I had a look at the map and it crashes with the send error message Not so sure this is a driver bug, more likely a game bug. Uppdated: Changed back to omega 6.7, everything works fine, didn't crash once even after 4 hours , something was wrong with cat 6.8. __________________ Neverwinter Nights: The Best Game Ever Last edited by Dalton Sleeper; Aug 21, 2006 at 02:46 AM.

Aug 19, 2006, 11:11 AM	#31
ronnn DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 617 Rep Power: 0	On my x1900gt 3dm06 has remained the same. So the release notes were not accurate for me anyways? Oh well not a fun game anyways. Other wise drivers seem nice and stable and no complaints.

Aug 19, 2006, 11:58 AM	#33
ronnn DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 617 Rep Power: 0	Oops, I should learn to read! The weird thing is 3dm06 reports the memory as being 262mb. Cats 6.7 it reported correctly as 256. Seems strange.

Aug 19, 2006, 01:25 PM	#34
km52 ! Overclocked ! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Rostock / Germany Posts: 53 Rep Power: 0	OpenGL games still crash-to-desktop, as they do with Cat 6.7. Going back to 6.6

Aug 19, 2006, 04:15 PM	#36
Ananas DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 46 Rep Power: 0	Greetings, 6.8 forces my system to immediately reboot when trying to play Links 2003 (v1.05) on a X850XT (AGP) and this hasn't been fixed either. According to this thread, there is definately a problem with the Catalysts and Bob De-Interlacing. Now I am back to 6.6 and everything (including Links 2003) is working fine again besides a pretty choppy performance with EA's Fifa World Cup 2006 every minute or so. Please, dear Catalyst Maker, take a look into these issues. Thanks in advance. Best Regards

Aug 20, 2006, 06:39 AM	#40
YogiYahooeys DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	I have an X800 Pro. The DVI out/dual monitor behavior is acting much differently in this release. Previously in using 6.6, when I would switch to 1152X648 resolution and clone the picture on my 50" Hitachi HDTV, the HDTV would fill the screen fully and beautifully and my old 19" Samsung CRT Monitor would pan left to right. It was a nice combination. Now, when I use that resolution, the HDTV looks the same; however, the monitor behavior is bizarre. The aspect ratio is screwed up (it's streched too tall) and none of the monitor attribute changes make much of any difference. Also, the monitor screen now pans in every direction, up down left and right... Does anyone have any ideas on what changed and how I can regain the previous behavior? Is this a bug or a 'feature' of the new drivers? Thanks!! YY

Aug 20, 2006, 10:12 AM	#42
AndyMutz DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 64 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	some test results on my system (a64 san diego @ 2,85 ghz, x1800xt 256mb @ 690/790 mhz): 3dmark06, 05 and 03 (all standard tests): no difference aquamark3 (standard test): -2700 points doom3 (via timedemo): +2 fps fear (standard test): +5 fps minimum call of duty 2 (my own timedemo): +2,5 fps prey (my own timedemo): +7,5 fps -andy-

Aug 20, 2006, 03:17 PM	#45
synergy12 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	-5 FPS in Counter-Strike Source... ATi really needs to look into the source engine and do some optimizing...

Aug 20, 2006, 09:42 PM	#49
X1800XTTOP DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 316 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Well i bought it from sweden too. I have the latest patch installed, although i really dont know what patch i used. I think i downloaded it from fz.se. Also, close any programs you might have running in the background. Programs like Xfire has been known to crash down the game. And yes, it did reset my video settings. You could try deleting your config. Go to mina dokument - my games - oblivion - and delete the "oblivion.ini" file, the game will generate a new one for you. Also, try loading an older save. I know that the game crashed on me once when i got corrupted savefiles. The game would crash to desktop as soon as i even moved my mousepointer over the corrupt save. Another one caused the game to crash after 1-3 minutes of gameplay. Scroll down the list and load a save thats really old (just for testing).

Aug 20, 2006, 10:19 PM	#51
Babalou HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 132 Rep Power: 0	World of Warcraft still broken....

Aug 21, 2006, 07:58 AM	#53
Zenoth HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 0	I've seen reports on the Elder Scrolls forums (for Oblivion), concerning crashing issues with Catalyst 6.8. You're not alone out there mate. I too had to go back with Catalyst 6.7. Very same crashing issue. All other games were fine (with 6.8), only affected game was Oblivion. __________________ *CPU: Intel C2D E8400 @ Stock* *Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 BIOS F9f* *Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC PC2-6400 4GB @ Stock* *GPU: eVGA GeForce GTX285 @ Stock* *APU: SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme Music* *PSU: Corsair TX750W* OS: Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64

Aug 21, 2006, 08:39 AM	#54
Sobek DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 43 Rep Power: 0	So...chuck patch you say. And where can we download it?

Aug 21, 2006, 10:08 AM	#55
X1800XTTOP DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 316 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Here; http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...estionID=21960

Aug 21, 2006, 03:19 PM	#56
Dalton Sleeper Programmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Västermo (Eskilstuna/Sweden) Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	No luck with oblivion and 6.8 again, used drivercleaner and cat uninstaller as always (Elder Scrolls forum), but newer version of drivercleaner this time. This was the last try for cat 6.8. __________________ Neverwinter Nights: The Best Game Ever

Aug 21, 2006, 09:21 PM	#57
Unbornchild DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 30 Rep Power: 0	Still using Cat 6.3. Because: Since Cat 6.4, rendering performance in Tomb Raider: Legend dropped back. Here what i mean (on tombraiderforums.com): [color=#22229c]ATI Catalyst 6.8 out. But Catalyst 6.3 still is the best for Legend..[/color] Notifying Ati Feedback crew (since 6.4) had no effect. Each new Catalyst promises better performance in other games i play, that's nice to know. But why should one game drop in performance? __________________ Pentium 650 ~ 4.05 Ghz / FSB 888 Mhz * ASUS P5AD2-E Premium * 2 GB Corsair PC 5300 DDR2 RAM in Dual Channel * ATI Radeon X1900XT * Creative X-Fi Platinum * 2 x 250 GB WD SATA-150 * NEC 3550 * Coolermaster Realpower 550W * Logitech G7 * EIZO T965 @ 1600x1200 / 85Hz * XP Home SP2 *

Aug 21, 2006, 10:07 PM	#58
Zenoth HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 0	I've tried again with Cat 6.8 (must be my 6th or 7th try now, I'm getting tired doing all the steps and rebooting and so on, I'll stop right there). Still crashes. I ... don't ... get ... it. Most are fine with it (Oblivion + Cat 6.8), and some others are not. Why ? I just can't figure out. I'll keep Cat 6.7 installed until maybe 6.9 or 6.10, which I hope will fix the crashing. And I do hope that someone from ATi will read this and try to investigate the problem. __________________ *CPU: Intel C2D E8400 @ Stock* *Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 BIOS F9f* *Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC PC2-6400 4GB @ Stock* *GPU: eVGA GeForce GTX285 @ Stock* *APU: SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme Music* *PSU: Corsair TX750W* OS: Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64

Aug 22, 2006, 03:09 AM	#59
Zenoth HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 0	http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...ic=540768&st=0 That's the forum I was talking about, it's a thread, in Oblivion board, talking about the issues with 6.8. __________________ *CPU: Intel C2D E8400 @ Stock* *Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 BIOS F9f* *Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC PC2-6400 4GB @ Stock* *GPU: eVGA GeForce GTX285 @ Stock* *APU: SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme Music* *PSU: Corsair TX750W* OS: Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64

Aug 23, 2006, 09:58 PM	#60
petri1 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	that´s why i don´t buy new GFX card since so many have problems with games ever since the X1K cards came. so i´ll wiat for ...say X2k i guess DX10 and all that so i bought oblivion for Xbox 360 better performance than on my PC and it´s beautifuk even on a CRT TV well HD LCD would make it look even better wel guess i´ll wait for 6.9´s then __________________ [COLOR=#232d35] [COLOR=Red]Intel Core 2 Quad 9450@2,66GHZ PowerColor Ati Radeon HD4870 512mb Gigabyte GaE-X38 4GB Kingston Hyper X [/COLOR] [/COLOR]