Eeastcoasthandle

Please post the problems you are experiencing with the current version of Cat for your HD 2900XT.

So far the only problems I've found consistent in several games is the fog bug. What this means is that for whatever reason fog is added to games that don't use fog or, there is extra fog added to games that use fog. The added fog appears to distort the IQ of objects in game making them look wash out in some cases, distort the color in some cases or simply hard to see in other cases. The games I found this in are (but not limited to):
BF2
HL2
HL2: Ep1
CS:S
DOD:S
Company of Heroes
Lost Planet

Eeastcoasthandle

Here is 2 examples (not my work) that shows the lack of sharpness and detail in Oblivion



The first is using HD 2900 XT with 16x Box AA
The second is G80 16SSAA
As you can see in the first pic is:
-lack of shadows
-lack of detail in the brick

Below is BF2

Here is BF2 with the HD 2900XT as you can see there are black spots.1680x1050 8xaa 16xaf. From what was gathered it may have something to do with Cat AI, not sure

I found this at another forum.

CATALYST maker

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Eeastcoasthandle

BF2:
For me whenever I enable Adaptive AA I notice:
-added leaves to plants, etc at a certain distance
-artifacts on the screen
-black spots
-excessive fog
I was not able to get a snap shot of all of this because it happens very fast and it's random. Others believe it has something to do with keeping AI enabled/disabled. It's hard to tell which is correct if not both at all.

Company of Heroes:
Does have the black spotting and fog issue. I will try to get a screenshot. By far this is the worst case of it. Its found mostly in the cut sceens and random in game action. No matter what setting I use it does not change.

Oblivion:
The Oblivion screen shots was taken using both box and wide filter (again not my photos). The reason why I didn't post the wide filter was becase I saw no difference. Is there a way to get the same/similar IQ (image quality) that shows the details and proper shadows? Side note: frame rates were in the single to teens which is expected. But I was wondering if using Obivion's in game settings will fix the issue or, is there something you might want to take a look at in the Cat drivers? I do understand the point (as you explained it) regarding the use of box/wide tint filtering. What I would like is the AA used from past versions of Radeon.


HLSL in DX 9.0C:
I wanted to also ask you if your department has plans on getting MS to update the DX 9.0c HLSL, to accommodate how the HD 2900XT functions? Will it take some other DX 9.0c update?


EDIT for COH photos:
Here is Company of Heroes with everything maxed. This is the in game cutsceens.

This photo shows how washed out the players and town is do to the excessive fog.



Over view of town with excessive fog and black spots from what I remember to be shadows with my X1900XT



This is as bad as it gets with the washed out look of this photos. Again, I call it fog but I am not 100% sure what this is. As you can see, whenever a shadow is cast it looks like a black spot.



In game settings.

As you can see, there is excussive amount of fog in this game that should not be. Also, are the black spots which appear to be some sort of "by product" of the excessive fog. It may or may not be shadow related, not sure. But this is as bad as it gets in this game.

Click on the image to increase it's size.

Eeastcoasthandle

ok, I edited the post above me to add more information

Eeastcoasthandle

One issue
Why does the tent filters remain active when I have AA set to "use application settings"? Is the tent still being applied to the game even though I want it disabled?

Eeastcoasthandle

the issue is still present with Cat 7.5

sireric

Regarding AA settings:

1) The filter type settings are sticky, regardless of application preference. This allows a user to specify a filter type and have it used for forced AA or for application AA.

2) The "Box filter" type is identical to previous generation's Radeon AA -- If you just want it like it was before, use that.

And we are working on a fog /sRGB fix that won't be application specific, but will be for DX9 apps using fixed function fog. Not sure on ETA, but asap is obviously the target.

OpenGL guy

If you have an Radeon X1xxx card available, can you see if the black spots are present with Adaptive AA enabled? I wonder if the extra filtering is causing problems with the app's rendering algorithm.
On X2xxx boards, we now expose Depth Stencil Textures w/ PCF. If the application is using them, then the results may differ from previous generation Radeon products. I don't know if that's the case here, we'll have to take a look. The fog issue looks like a similar fog problem as on Half-life 2 and related games.

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Eeastcoasthandle

Thank you for the information.



Using Adaptive AA (x1900xtx) did not cause this problem. I know that for a fact.


Yes, a striking resemblance to the HL2 games. Not sure what was causing it. I do recall G80 having fog issues (never owned one, just read about it). Which appear to be resolved now. What's also interesting is that since the G80 release there were 3 DX9 updates (that I know of):
December 2006
February 2007
April 2007
I wonder if the ATI team can get MS to update [COLOR=Blue]DX 9.0c's HLSL shader debugging [/COLOR](<--click here)/etc to help improve performance to the HD 2900XT (based on how the HD 2900XT uses HLSL...just a guess)?

Eeastcoasthandle

Below are 2 videos of BF2 using Adative AA. As you can see (sorry but the location of where the video was uploaded makes it look like crap) the leaves on the plants increase then decrease. This is not part of the game and it was not found using the X1900xtx. I want to also note a slight decrease in frame rates when this happens. This sort of looks like EATM used on the x1900xtx.




http://rapidshare.com/files/34698789/bf2_1.MPG.html <-use this to see a better IQ of the movie bf2_1 (above)



http://rapidshare.com/files/34701095/bf2_2.mpg.html <-use this to see a better IQ of the movie bf2_2 (above)

However, as you can also see there is a bit more fog then normal. The building in the second video should be in clear view.

Eeastcoasthandle

above post was edited and updated.

Eeastcoasthandle

If I disable DXT Texture Support in the Catalyst Control Centre games like Company of Heroes and BF2 simply crash. (cat 7.5)

X1800XTTOP

The CCC has this way of locking settings sometimes. Just set it to box and reboot to fix it. This is one of the main reasons i dislike the CCC - it just fails to apply settings. And no its not my system, i have had the same issue directly after two reformats and even after installing Vista. I noticed this problem the very first day i got my X1800 card.

I have the same issue with the HD2900. Just now the CCC locked at 16xAA/16xAF. I wanted to play oblivion so i set CCC to 8xAA box (wich i plays awesome in oblvion) but i end up having the blurried AA applied and performance in singledigit-form. I check the CCC and it clearly states 8xAA box. I reboot and try playing again and everything is fine.

My friend with a x1950pro AGP has the very same issue. Others like here;
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33892128
also have the same issue. The CCC basicly fails to force AA/AF - basic functionality.

I used to report it to ati every month but i just lost hope. I cant wait until ATT gets support for the HD2900, as ATTs game specific profiles thingie _never_ failed to load. Ive tried all diffrent ways of applying settings with the CCC - its just an issue ill never get fixed.

This and the source-fog bug is the only things that annoy me from enjoying my HD2900. Unfourtionally, the CCC-bug annoys me so much that i just... i dont know, i cannot understand how my gpu-control panel cant do something so easy as applying my settings. And it isnt game-specific, happens in all games..

Eeastcoasthandle

Interesting, can you provide me what version of net framework you are using?

My only grape with CCC is that if I want application settings I also want tent filter also disabled.

X1800XTTOP

I have all .net installed (install everything from windows update). I used to run CCC with only 1.1 installed, and when CCC required 2.0 i quicly went to only using 2.0.

Before you tick application settings, chose box mode and click apply - then application preferences and apply again. If you still get wide/narrow effects just reboot.

Eeastcoasthandle

Did you install net framework 1.1 KB886903
then reboot
then install net framework 2.0 kb922770 and kb917283

??

X1800XTTOP

Yes, as i said i have everything related installed. And its not just me.

Try settings 16xAA (or whatever) and start a game. Then disable AA and play the game again. Now keep doing the very same until you find that the CCC suddenly stops working. Ie at one point your CCC will show 16xAA and you get none - or the other way around, your CCC will say noAA while 16xAA is clearly forced.

Eeastcoasthandle

When I use the command line -dxlevel 81 (AKA "directx 8.1" via set launch options) the fog issue is gone in all HL2 games. Does this point to a DX9.0 issue using the unified shaders? In particular DX 9.0c's HLSL?

http://www.tweakguides.com/HL2_7.html

Eeastcoasthandle

click on thumbnail, once image is shown on your screen click on image.
This is odd indeed. Why is the fog problem on certain maps??? As you can see here, there is no fog issue.
-Using directx 8.1 removes the fog
-de_piranesi doesn't show fog in DX 9.0c

Not sure what to makes of this.

sireric

We understand the fog issue. It's related to operating in linear space vs. gamma space for fog computations on sRGB surfaces. DX10 is different than DX9 in this respect. It should be fixed asap...

CATALYST maker

Try installing .net 3.0 thats out now on windows update.

I have never seen a freeze on CCC.

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Eeastcoasthandle

Thank you for your prompt response and resolution to this problem. I hope we see a new cat soon. Hmm, I wonder if this will actually increase performance?

Has the following been resolved:
If I disable DXT Texture Support in the Catalyst Control Centre games like Company of Heroes, BF2, etc simply crash to desktop. (cat 7.5)

BF2:
Whenever I enable Adaptive AA I notice:
-added leaves to plants, etc at a certain distance (shown in this post)
-artifacts on the screen hard to catch as its random
-excessive fog (when you watch the video) buildings are in a haze even at close range (assuming your statement was involving most games and not just HL2 based games).

X1800XTTOP

Thank you for the reply, i have .net 3.0 istalled already. Its not so much a freeze on the CCC. It just fails to set AA/AF.

I mean, i can still set AA/AF, press apply and whatever i want to, i just dont get any ingame. When it happens ill show you a screen of CCC and a game in window mode, youll notice that CCC says AA/AF on max while ingame shows another thing.

Judas

My own .net installation for XP is to install only .net 3.0 (as it'll install .net 2.0 anyways along side with it)

windows vista, well it comes with everything anyone should need, nothing else to install with it.

Since catalyst 7.4, all my Vista CCC settings are sticking, previous ones were a hit and miss though

I'm trying to get my hands on a HD2900.... but things aren't going smoothly just yet.

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deekey777

Why don't you kick VALVe's arse for this problem? VALVe have to fix it and not ATi.

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Eeastcoasthandle

TO:
[COLOR=#ee6d6d]sireric[/COLOR] , [COLOR=#ee6d6d]CATALYST maker[/COLOR], etc I have a problem with HD 2900 XT with Cat 7.5.

Game:Colin McRae: DIRT Demo
Game Settings: evertthing maxed with "shadows" ultra
Frame rate: 9-10 FPS
Resolution: 1680x1050

Game Settings: evertthing maxed with "shadows" high
Frame rate: 30+FPS
Resolution: 1680x1050

Can something be done to make this game playable with ultra shadows? I've tried to lower everything and keep shadows on ultra and still got 9-10 FPS. IMHO, it appears to be a driver issue more so then a hardware limitation.

X1800XTTOP

Ok, i have more information on my issue. It´s infact the very same as the other post on this forum. As soon as i set resolution to the same as desktop - AA/AF disables itself!

I booted up this morning, my CCC settings were all app-decides. Now i wanted to play Half-Life 2, so i set CCC to 8xAA, Adaptive on Quality, 16xAF right? I start the game, and it looks like shit (no AA/AF). I of course start cursing the CCC, but before i reboot i do some testing. I start up the game Live for Speed.

Again, no AA/AF applied. But then i change resulotion to 1024X768 because i wanted to take a screenshot with AA-settings and the CCC. Guess what, AA/AF was WORKING. Now i started changing resultions to the most wierd ones, and they ALL worked. My desktop resolution is 1280X1024 32-bit. All resolutions had AA/AF enabled, except for my desktop resultion. Im saying EVEN 1280X1024 16-bit had AA/AF. As soon as i put the same resultion as my desktop (1280X1024 32-bit) i get NO AA/AF WHATSOEVER.

Ok there you have it Terry, now fix it and you are a god among ATi-gamers. I will edit in some pics of this "funny" (actually i rage like hell about it) issue.

(Click on the pics until they show in correct size!)

1280X1024 32bit:


1280X1024 16bit:


1024X768 16bit:


1024X768 32bit:


As you can see, only my desktop resolution lacks AA. Now Im on a LCD screen, and playing in non-native resolutions is not an option. I cant believe im finally close to solving this. As I said, i noticed it the first day i got my X1800 jan 1st 06 - and now with a HD2900 im finally close to see the CCC fixed. Woho!

EDIT2:
Oh for crying out loud.

I tried diffrent desktop resolutions. It simply doesnt matter. All resolutions except for 1280X1024X32 are working when it comes to forcing AA/AF. I just tried the same thing in Oblivion. Not touching the CCC, i changed to diffrent desktop resolutions and colourbits - nothing helps. I decrease resolution ingame to 1280X960 and BANG, AA/AF are working as good as ever. Oh the frustration.

Now the annoying part is that 1280X1024X32 is the ONLY thing i want to use. Someone give me a hug please.

X1800XTTOP

Ok so i try to "fix" this issue by playing in non-native resolutions. So i tick the "use centered timings" option in the CCC.

And i try to play games in 1280X960 instead. Sure, the AA/AF ingame works - but the picture is still autoscaling?! Im really at loss of words here... doesn´t anything work correctly? *cries*

Eeastcoasthandle

I've seen a re-occuring theme when it involves game shadows:
-Company of Heroes: Black spots instead of shadows (cut scenes).
-Dirt: When shadows are place on ultra you get 9-FPS instead of the 31+ FPS
-Dirt: When shadows are place on high they are very jagged, no smooth at all.
These are just a few games I notice a problem whenever shadows are used. I do hope you are able to fix this problem.