Why is my new 9700 Pro slower than my GF4?

Bongeye · Jul 29, 2003, 10:53 PM

Hi

I'm new to the ATI experience, having just invested in a 9700 Pro.

Thing is, I've removed my old Ti4200, cleansed my system of all trace of NVidia GF4 drivers, installed the 9700Pro, and my framerates are now about 20-30% slower...

This is the same with the Catalyst 3.6, and the new Omega drivers.

I've disabled Vsync, AA and AS, set the same resolutions as I had previously, and am running out of ideas...

Am I missing something obvious that I need to do?

Please help if you can; its been a long night, and I'm at the end of my tether!

sberthez · Jul 29, 2003, 10:59 PM

Config (CPU, motherboard,OS) ?
3DMark01 score ?
3DMark03 score ?

Those are the minimum required to reply to you. What is the game/bench you compare to ?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 29, 2003, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bongeye
Hi

I'm new to the ATI experience, having just invested in a 9700 Pro.

Thing is, I've removed my old Ti4200, cleansed my system of all trace of NVidia GF4 drivers, installed the 9700Pro, and my framerates are now about 20-30% slower...

This is the same with the Catalyst 3.6, and the new Omega drivers.

I've disabled Vsync, AA and AS, set the same resolutions as I had previously, and am running out of ideas...

Am I missing something obvious that I need to do?

Please help if you can; its been a long night, and I'm at the end of my tether!

try upgradeing your chipset drivers, windows updates etc....

Shadow Lady · Jul 30, 2003, 12:06 AM

its just a possibility, but maybe they didnt really sell u a 9700

DallasStar · Jul 30, 2003, 12:23 AM

Reformats (although undesireable) can do wonders.

Datagg · Jul 30, 2003, 10:02 AM

i had a similiar prob with mine and it was here that I was told to up my voltage a bit in bios and to get a better power supply. Both gave me the results i waqs supposed to get. It wasnt that i had a bad power supply, it was how much i had on it that as the prob. Now i have a turbo link 420 watt supply that keeps all pumped up well, no more lock ups during heavy intense programs , stuff like that. So in my opinion, either you dont really have a 9700 pro, or your power supply may not nbe strong enough. But make sure you have all the newest chipset drivers and and such to exaust those possibilities first, then look elsewhere...

Good luck...

BWX · Jul 30, 2003, 11:07 AM

When I went from my ti4200 to my new 9700pro a few months ago, I had the same problem. I used driver cleaner, manually cleaned out cab files and registry and still the 9700pro would not work correctly untill I reinstalled the OS. But still in cpu intensive benchies like 3dmark 01 I have noticed in certain spots the ti 4200 OC'd was faster than the 9700 pro- no matter what I do or how much I oc the 9700 pro- I think it's a software thing. But overall your 9700pro should be much faster- especially when it comes to GPU (video card) intensive parts of a benchmark or game. I would try everything else, but in the end you will probably nbd up reinstalling your OS anyway. It will be worth it-- I'm glad I did.

Bongeye · Jul 30, 2003, 08:04 PM

Cool

Thanks for all the tips, guys.

I figured that even without a reinstall, it should at least be faster than the Ti4200...

I'll checked the identification numbers on the card to make sure it is a 9700Pro (although I'm fairly sure it is, and even a 9700 should be faster than a 4200, no?)

I don't have much running off the power supply (CD-ROM, DVD-ROM/CD-Writer, one hard drive, etc), the card does need to be plugged into the PSU, so maybe it just needs more juice.

I have a 350w PSU, and I've heard that many PSUs don't really even have what they claim, so I'll upgrade that immediately.

BWX232, you have similar set-up to me, too. Can I ask what PSU you are using?

I've also been told that a 9700Pro needs to have a fast CPU to really come into its own, so I might overclock mine until I can afford a faster one. Still, though, it should be faster than the NVidia, even so.

Thanks again, though, I didn't think anyone would reply, but you've warmed my heart. If any of you need any tips on racing sims, you let me know

krazy1 · Jul 30, 2003, 08:35 PM

From all my past experiences with changing video cards, motherboards and even CPU's the bet thing to do is just format the drive and do a fresh install of the OS. The driver cleaner programs out there are great products but you just can't beat a format and re-install...... I am sure their is someone out their that will tell me till they are blue in the face that their is no need to do a format and re-install but from all my years of experiance, this is the best way to get it right........

DallasStar · Jul 30, 2003, 09:26 PM

I should add that there are certain settings that windows adjusts ONLY WHEN INSTALLING THE OS and it sets these based on the hardware that you have. I suppose maybe one of these settings could solve this problem.

twangman51 · Jul 30, 2003, 09:51 PM

before you go mad try the 3.4 cat drivers or the equiv, omega

BWX · Jul 31, 2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bongeye
Cool

Thanks for all the tips, guys.

I figured that even without a reinstall, it should at least be faster than the Ti4200...

I'll checked the identification numbers on the card to make sure it is a 9700Pro (although I'm fairly sure it is, and even a 9700 should be faster than a 4200, no?)

I don't have much running off the power supply (CD-ROM, DVD-ROM/CD-Writer, one hard drive, etc), the card does need to be plugged into the PSU, so maybe it just needs more juice.

I have a 350w PSU, and I've heard that many PSUs don't really even have what they claim, so I'll upgrade that immediately.

BWX232, you have similar set-up to me, too. Can I ask what PSU you are using?

I've also been told that a 9700Pro needs to have a fast CPU to really come into its own, so I might overclock mine until I can afford a faster one. Still, though, it should be faster than the NVidia, even so.

Thanks again, though, I didn't think anyone would reply, but you've warmed my heart. If any of you need any tips on racing sims, you let me know

What cpu/mem are you running?
I have a generic 350 watt. I'm going to run a dual psu setup w/ another 250 watt running my drives and fans in a few days so m ymain psu will only bw powering the mb/cpu/ram and video card until I can buy a good 500w or more psu- Even then I still might run a 2 psu setup so my fans aren't connected to the main one.

Bongeye · Aug 1, 2003, 06:33 PM

Sorry;

I can't believe that I haven't included my PC specs, even though someone has even mentioned it!!! The only excuse that I have is that I haven't slept at all for three days, just working and trying to fix this. Clearly, I should have had some sleep because I didn't actually LOOK at the power supply before saying it was a 350w. This is something I find unforgiveable when I'm trying to sort problems out for people and I have no excuse...

...I've actually checked the PSU again, after this was mentioned, and found that I have a 300w PSU. I've also made sure that my AGP Aperture size is 128Mb, since I have more than 512mb of RAM, as noted on the ATI website. It seems that my brother changed the aperture to 256mb without telling me because "he knows best".

My specs, incidentally, are:

Athlon XP1900+
Abit KR7A Mobo
1 gig RAM
Windows XP Pro
9700Pro (ATI-manufactured, not third-party)

I don't have 3D Mark, but I'm using EA's F1 Championship Season in-game frame counter to benchmark the computer. Its a replay, and I make a note of the FPS at three points around the lap. This isn't because I think its the best way to test it; its just because racing simulations are the reason I own a computer.

The Ti4200 was giving me 65-70fps, which dropped to 39-42fps with the Radeon.
I changed the AGP BIOS setting from 256mb to 128mb, which raised the count to 60-65fps.

Its fairly clear that a 300w PSU is the problem, then? I'm installing the new one tonight, so fingers crossed.
Full reinstall of XP will be done this weekend.

BWX · Aug 1, 2003, 06:54 PM

I don't think a 350 watt PSU will give you any more frames per second. It sounds like a driver issue or something. It also depends on what your graphics settings are at in the control panel too-

Download 3dmark o1 and o3 just for a reference to make a comparison anyway. Do you have ddr ram in that thing or sdr?

Vampyromaniac · Aug 1, 2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bongeye
Its fairly clear that a 300w PSU is the problem, then? I'm installing the new one tonight, so fingers crossed.
Full reinstall of XP will be done this weekend.

Hopefully that is it, and as Shuki says, always the best idea to reformat when installing a new vid card

BWX · Aug 1, 2003, 07:11 PM

Yeah, that's probably it- I went from a ti4200 to a 9700pro and it never worked quite right until a reinstall of the OS.

Bongeye · Aug 4, 2003, 10:43 PM

Well, I've installed a Q-Tec 550w power supply; although it shouldn't logically help framerate, my card is now sensitive to changes in resolution, etc, and actually rises above 45fps now.

I've partitioned off 3gig hard drive space to do a clean install (so if it doesn't help, then I can just remove the partition and save myself the bother of setting everything up again...)

I'll install 3dMark so I have a basis for comparison with everyone else.

Next step; a better CPU cooler and MORE VOLTAGE

Thanks for all the help, guys, this definitely would have been drawn out for weeks had it not been for the tips I got in this thread...

BWX · Aug 5, 2003, 01:57 AM

PSU and voltage won't do anything for FPS- get better memory and cpu like ya said.

Datagg · Aug 5, 2003, 02:43 AM

Hello, another point I forgot to mention to ya in my post to get a beter power supply was to up your AGP voltage to 1.7 and to up your ddr voltage to 2.6 in your bios. If your specs are like mine your AGP V may be 1.5 which is standard, the radeon likes a bit more juice. Let me know if that helps you out as it did me.

Good luck....

satech2001 · Aug 5, 2003, 09:46 AM

Get a decent benchmark to test your card cause the ingame fps counter isnt much of an overall test not to mention that the game your trying could be better on a GF4.

Also note that if your using and old set of NON -catalyst drivers your performance is way bellow specs.

Get a recent set of drivers 3.4 or 3.6 (not 3.5) and make sure you setup your card correctly for performance not quality if your gonna bench it.

Unless that 4200 was overclocked to hell and back there is no way in it out performes the ATI card( i would say the ATI is at least 40% faster and that at default).

I went from a GF4 ti 4800 ( thats a 4400 with agp8) and in 3dmark 2003 i went from a top of 2100 to 5400 with the ATI.
In 3dmark2001 i went from a very unstable overclock like hell ..15500 to a very easy 16.500 with the ATI.

Also dont forget to install the latest DX9 cause your ATI is dx9 card my friend.

Kgentatszu] · Aug 5, 2003, 10:11 AM

anyway, mate, i'm just curious, why not 3.5???? or the omega ones?? they seemed to work flawlessly to me...

BWX · Aug 5, 2003, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satech2001
Get a decent benchmark to test your card cause the ingame fps counter isnt much of an overall test not to mention that the game your trying could be better on a GF4.

Also note that if your using and old set of NON -catalyst drivers your performance is way bellow specs.

Get a recent set of drivers 3.4 or 3.6 (not 3.5) and make sure you setup your card correctly for performance not quality if your gonna bench it.

Unless that 4200 was overclocked to hell and back there is no way in it out performes the ATI card( i would say the ATI is at least 40% faster and that at default).

I went from a GF4 ti 4800 ( thats a 4400 with agp8) and in 3dmark 2003 i went from a top of 2100 to 5400 with the ATI.
In 3dmark2001 i went from a very unstable overclock like hell ..15500 to a very easy 16.500 with the ATI.

Also dont forget to install the latest DX9 cause your ATI is dx9 card my friend.

True, I had a ti4200 that I ran at 315/594 and it wasn't as fast as my new 9700 pro at default speeds. I noticed a few places in 3dmark2001 where the fps would dip below where they would at the exact same place in the test- but these places where mostly cpu dependent. The places in the tests where the fps is mostly video card dependent, the speed was much faster. So overall, the score was at least 1500 points higher.

I think bongeye, like me, has a sysyem that is bottlenecked by the cpu/ram- not the video card. With a faster cpu and ram, the card would perform much better.

Bongeye · Aug 5, 2003, 11:43 PM

Downloading from 3DMark2003 now.

Rasta Monsta · Aug 6, 2003, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by krazy1
From all my past experiences with changing video cards, motherboards and even CPU's the bet thing to do is just format the drive and do a fresh install of the OS. The driver cleaner programs out there are great products but you just can't beat a format and re-install...... I am sure their is someone out their that will tell me till they are blue in the face that their is no need to do a format and re-install but from all my years of experiance, this is the best way to get it right........

And this, folks, is the number one reason for drive partitioning. Make a small partition just for the OS, so that format & reintallation adventures don't cause you to erase stuff you don't wanna.

rasta

Jul 29, 2003, 10:53 PM	#1
Bongeye DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Why is my new 9700 Pro slower than my GF4? Hi I'm new to the ATI experience, having just invested in a 9700 Pro. Thing is, I've removed my old Ti4200, cleansed my system of all trace of NVidia GF4 drivers, installed the 9700Pro, and my framerates are now about 20-30% slower... This is the same with the Catalyst 3.6, and the new Omega drivers. I've disabled Vsync, AA and AS, set the same resolutions as I had previously, and am running out of ideas... Am I missing something obvious that I need to do? Please help if you can; its been a long night, and I'm at the end of my tether!

Jul 29, 2003, 10:59 PM	#2
sberthez DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Config (CPU, motherboard,OS) ? 3DMark01 score ? 3DMark03 score ? Those are the minimum required to reply to you. What is the game/bench you compare to ? __________________ MSI KT7 Turbo2 XP1800+ 1 Go RAM PC133 no-name Sound Blaster Live! Radeon 9700 HIS

Jul 30, 2003, 12:06 AM	#4
Shadow Lady Avril Fan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere in colombia, okok, bogotÃ¡ city :p Posts: 1,262 Rep Power: 0	its just a possibility, but maybe they didnt really sell u a 9700 __________________ Oblivion ftw

Jul 30, 2003, 12:23 AM	#5
DallasStar Junior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wave Existence Posts: 2,065 Rep Power: 0	Reformats (although undesireable) can do wonders. __________________ "A picture of my existence... would show a useless wooden stake covered in snow... stuck loosely at a slant in the ground in a ploughed field on the edge of a vast open plain on a dark winter night." --- Franz Kafka

Jul 30, 2003, 10:02 AM	#6
Datagg Back To ATI Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mesa,AZ Posts: 287 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	i had a similiar prob with mine and it was here that I was told to up my voltage a bit in bios and to get a better power supply. Both gave me the results i waqs supposed to get. It wasnt that i had a bad power supply, it was how much i had on it that as the prob. Now i have a turbo link 420 watt supply that keeps all pumped up well, no more lock ups during heavy intense programs , stuff like that. So in my opinion, either you dont really have a 9700 pro, or your power supply may not nbe strong enough. But make sure you have all the newest chipset drivers and and such to exaust those possibilities first, then look elsewhere... Good luck... __________________ --- i7-920 @3.8 CORSAIR XMS3 6GB(3 x 2GB) 2 4870 X2's CrossFireX VelociRaptor Asus P6T Deluxe Thermaltake toughpower 1200 Vista 64 Ultimate

Jul 30, 2003, 11:07 AM	#7
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	When I went from my ti4200 to my new 9700pro a few months ago, I had the same problem. I used driver cleaner, manually cleaned out cab files and registry and still the 9700pro would not work correctly untill I reinstalled the OS. But still in cpu intensive benchies like 3dmark 01 I have noticed in certain spots the ti 4200 OC'd was faster than the 9700 pro- no matter what I do or how much I oc the 9700 pro- I think it's a software thing. But overall your 9700pro should be much faster- especially when it comes to GPU (video card) intensive parts of a benchmark or game. I would try everything else, but in the end you will probably nbd up reinstalling your OS anyway. It will be worth it-- I'm glad I did. __________________

Jul 30, 2003, 08:04 PM	Thread Starter #8
Bongeye DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Cool Thanks for all the tips, guys. I figured that even without a reinstall, it should at least be faster than the Ti4200... I'll checked the identification numbers on the card to make sure it is a 9700Pro (although I'm fairly sure it is, and even a 9700 should be faster than a 4200, no?) I don't have much running off the power supply (CD-ROM, DVD-ROM/CD-Writer, one hard drive, etc), the card does need to be plugged into the PSU, so maybe it just needs more juice. I have a 350w PSU, and I've heard that many PSUs don't really even have what they claim, so I'll upgrade that immediately. BWX232, you have similar set-up to me, too. Can I ask what PSU you are using? I've also been told that a 9700Pro needs to have a fast CPU to really come into its own, so I might overclock mine until I can afford a faster one. Still, though, it should be faster than the NVidia, even so. Thanks again, though, I didn't think anyone would reply, but you've warmed my heart. If any of you need any tips on racing sims, you let me know

Jul 30, 2003, 08:35 PM	#9
krazy1 Live from the Dungeon Join Date: May 2003 Location: Between the SubWoofers Posts: 1,395 Rep Power: 0	From all my past experiences with changing video cards, motherboards and even CPU's the bet thing to do is just format the drive and do a fresh install of the OS. The driver cleaner programs out there are great products but you just can't beat a format and re-install...... I am sure their is someone out their that will tell me till they are blue in the face that their is no need to do a format and re-install but from all my years of experiance, this is the best way to get it right........ __________________

Jul 30, 2003, 09:26 PM	#10
DallasStar Junior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wave Existence Posts: 2,065 Rep Power: 0	I should add that there are certain settings that windows adjusts ONLY WHEN INSTALLING THE OS and it sets these based on the hardware that you have. I suppose maybe one of these settings could solve this problem. __________________ "A picture of my existence... would show a useless wooden stake covered in snow... stuck loosely at a slant in the ground in a ploughed field on the edge of a vast open plain on a dark winter night." --- Franz Kafka

Jul 30, 2003, 09:51 PM	#11
twangman51 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	9700pro performance before you go mad try the 3.4 cat drivers or the equiv, omega __________________ twanger

Aug 1, 2003, 06:33 PM	Thread Starter #13
Bongeye DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Sorry; I can't believe that I haven't included my PC specs, even though someone has even mentioned it!!! The only excuse that I have is that I haven't slept at all for three days, just working and trying to fix this. Clearly, I should have had some sleep because I didn't actually LOOK at the power supply before saying it was a 350w. This is something I find unforgiveable when I'm trying to sort problems out for people and I have no excuse... ...I've actually checked the PSU again, after this was mentioned, and found that I have a 300w PSU. I've also made sure that my AGP Aperture size is 128Mb, since I have more than 512mb of RAM, as noted on the ATI website. It seems that my brother changed the aperture to 256mb without telling me because "he knows best". My specs, incidentally, are: Athlon XP1900+ Abit KR7A Mobo 1 gig RAM Windows XP Pro 9700Pro (ATI-manufactured, not third-party) I don't have 3D Mark, but I'm using EA's F1 Championship Season in-game frame counter to benchmark the computer. Its a replay, and I make a note of the FPS at three points around the lap. This isn't because I think its the best way to test it; its just because racing simulations are the reason I own a computer. The Ti4200 was giving me 65-70fps, which dropped to 39-42fps with the Radeon. I changed the AGP BIOS setting from 256mb to 128mb, which raised the count to 60-65fps. Its fairly clear that a 300w PSU is the problem, then? I'm installing the new one tonight, so fingers crossed. Full reinstall of XP will be done this weekend.

Aug 1, 2003, 06:54 PM	#14
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	I don't think a 350 watt PSU will give you any more frames per second. It sounds like a driver issue or something. It also depends on what your graphics settings are at in the control panel too- Download 3dmark o1 and o3 just for a reference to make a comparison anyway. Do you have ddr ram in that thing or sdr? __________________

Aug 1, 2003, 07:11 PM	#16
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	Yeah, that's probably it- I went from a ti4200 to a 9700pro and it never worked quite right until a reinstall of the OS. __________________

Aug 4, 2003, 10:43 PM	Thread Starter #17
Bongeye DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Well, I've installed a Q-Tec 550w power supply; although it shouldn't logically help framerate, my card is now sensitive to changes in resolution, etc, and actually rises above 45fps now. I've partitioned off 3gig hard drive space to do a clean install (so if it doesn't help, then I can just remove the partition and save myself the bother of setting everything up again...) I'll install 3dMark so I have a basis for comparison with everyone else. Next step; a better CPU cooler and MORE VOLTAGE Thanks for all the help, guys, this definitely would have been drawn out for weeks had it not been for the tips I got in this thread...

Aug 5, 2003, 01:57 AM	#18
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	PSU and voltage won't do anything for FPS- get better memory and cpu like ya said. __________________

Aug 5, 2003, 02:43 AM	#19
Datagg Back To ATI Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mesa,AZ Posts: 287 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Hello, another point I forgot to mention to ya in my post to get a beter power supply was to up your AGP voltage to 1.7 and to up your ddr voltage to 2.6 in your bios. If your specs are like mine your AGP V may be 1.5 which is standard, the radeon likes a bit more juice. Let me know if that helps you out as it did me. Good luck.... __________________ --- i7-920 @3.8 CORSAIR XMS3 6GB(3 x 2GB) 2 4870 X2's CrossFireX VelociRaptor Asus P6T Deluxe Thermaltake toughpower 1200 Vista 64 Ultimate

Aug 5, 2003, 09:46 AM	#20
satech2001 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 93 Rep Power: 0	Get a decent benchmark to test your card cause the ingame fps counter isnt much of an overall test not to mention that the game your trying could be better on a GF4. Also note that if your using and old set of NON -catalyst drivers your performance is way bellow specs. Get a recent set of drivers 3.4 or 3.6 (not 3.5) and make sure you setup your card correctly for performance not quality if your gonna bench it. Unless that 4200 was overclocked to hell and back there is no way in it out performes the ATI card( i would say the ATI is at least 40% faster and that at default). I went from a GF4 ti 4800 ( thats a 4400 with agp8) and in 3dmark 2003 i went from a top of 2100 to 5400 with the ATI. In 3dmark2001 i went from a very unstable overclock like hell ..15500 to a very easy 16.500 with the ATI. Also dont forget to install the latest DX9 cause your ATI is dx9 card my friend. __________________ [COLOR=red]Intel P4 2.4 @ 3.544 mhz (1.75v)(12x295) [/COLOR] [COLOR=orange]Aircooled with Thermalright Slk-800u+enermax 80mm(3200 rpm)[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Abit IC7 Updated nb cooler (1.6 bios)[/COLOR] [COLOR=orange]TwinMos 2x256 dual channel @ 236 fsb(2.8v) 7-3-3-2.5[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Club3D Radeon 9700pro @ 380/338[/COLOR] [COLOR=orange]Maxtor diamondmax9 8mb cache 80gig[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Case Y-Y cube highly modded[/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]best marks so far: 3dm2k3-5994 3dm2k1 19886[/COLOR] My modded case 3Dmark2001se

Aug 5, 2003, 10:11 AM	#21
Kgentatszu] DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,802 Rep Power: 0	anyway, mate, i'm just curious, why not 3.5???? or the omega ones?? they seemed to work flawlessly to me...

Aug 5, 2003, 11:43 PM	Thread Starter #23
Bongeye DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Downloading from 3DMark2003 now.