Overdrive only in some 9600XT boards?

strop · Jan 8, 2004, 05:24 PM

Hi all, I have bought a GeXCube 9600XT and with Catalyst 3.10 doesn't appears any overdrive option in the control panel. Now my questions are:

1) This board, and all the others on wich the overdrive option doesn't appear in control panel (sapphire, power color, asus, ecc.) will have this function in future releases of Catalyst?

2) It's a bios problem or a drivers problem?

3) If I update my vga bios with the bios of another 9600XT (on wich the overdrive is working), it's possible that I can damage my vga and that, after the update, the vga will not boot up anymore?

Tnx for replies.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 8, 2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
Hi all, I have bought a GeXCube 9600XT and with Catalyst 3.10 doesn't appears any overdrive option in the control panel. Now my questions are:

1) This board, and all the others on wich the overdrive option doesn't appear in control panel (sapphire, power color, asus, ecc.) will have this function in future releases of Catalyst?

2) It's a bios problem or a drivers problem?

3) If I update my vga bios with the bios of another 9600XT (on wich the overdrive is working), it's possible that I can damage my vga and that, after the update, the vga will not boot up anymore?

Tnx for replies.

should be there if it an xt

useing a bios thats not ment for your card could kill it

i sugest you use driver cleaner and resinstall the drivers
might even give the the omega's a try thier alot faster

strop · Jan 9, 2004, 12:44 AM

Ok, I have disinstalled all the ATi drivers, hydravision, control panel, ecc., then I have rebooted in safe mode and I have launched Cab Cleaner then Drive Cleaner.
Then I have rebooted, I have installed Catalyst 3.10 driver and reboot.

Overdrive option? Nothing...

On the support page of the gexcube site, there are only Catalyst 3.6!!

I don't want to think that some boards haven't the temp sensor...

Anyway, I have heard that many 9600xt users have same problem (with sapphire, powercolor, gexcube). Then my conclusion is that who have this option is a very lucky guy...

I'm not interested in the (little) overclocking feature of overdrive, but at the possibility of downclock dinamically the core when it isn't busy with 3D operations.

Zebra · Jan 9, 2004, 02:07 AM

I have this option on my ATI branded 9600XT, with the Omega Drivers installed. However, it will not let you set any clocking options, and so far from what I read, will not go more than 7Mhz higer than stock anyways. I just use RivaTuner to set the overclocking. So far I'm at 571/650 with no hitches. Have run the Artifact tester as well as 3DMark03 several times with no hiccups. Multitexture fill rate is at 2089M now.

strop · Jan 9, 2004, 10:54 AM

Zebra, I'm happy for you, but I have said before that I'm not much interested to overclocking feature of overdrive, but I'm interested at the possibility of dynamic downclock when the board isn't busy and at the temperature sensor display (as for nvidia boards since from FX5600ultra).
Anyway I would be very disappointed if some boards doesn't have temp sensor. The overdrive is supposed to be one of the very little features of the XT series. If you remove this feature what remains? A 9600Pro board overclocked...
I hope that some catalyst driver maker can give me some explanations on this problem.
Thanks for reply anyway.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 9, 2004, 03:37 PM

dude the chip sensor it inside the built xt chipset.....

it it doesnt have the sensor its not a xt chip ....

what the clock rate on that card? the 500/600 that the xt has?

strop · Jan 9, 2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
dude the chip sensor it inside the built xt chipset.....

it it doesnt have the sensor its not a xt chip ....

what the clock rate on that card? the 500/600 that the xt has?

If the temp sensor is inside the xt chipset, then why the Asus cards are not working with overdrive feature but only with asus smart doctor?

Anyway, yes, my card is 500/600 and has an RV360 chipset.
This is a picture of my card:

Do you think that it isn't a 9600XT ?

HolyAvenger · Jan 9, 2004, 07:32 PM

I have the Sapphire 9600 XT 256 MB, and sure enough there's no Overdrive tab.

strop · Jan 9, 2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HolyAvenger
I have the Sapphire 9600 XT 256 MB, and sure enough there's no Overdrive tab.

Welcome to the 'We have 9600XT but no overdrive tab' club!!

I have emailed ATi and GeXCube for this problem... I hope that I will have some replies from them.
I would appreciate an opinion from a Catalyst driver developer on this problem...
Can ATi assure me that all the 9600XT (from any productor) have for sure a temp sensor?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 9, 2004, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
If the temp sensor is inside the xt chipset, then why the Asus cards are not working with overdrive feature but only with asus smart doctor?
Anyway, yes, my card is 500/600 and has an RV360 chipset.
This is a picture of my card:

Do you think that it isn't a 9600XT ?

well with asus they disable useing the overdrive feature they turn it off in thier drivers so they can use smartdoctor insted.

if they used other then the referance design for the cooler it could be disabled by your board maker.
try useing the drivers supplied by www.ati.com and not those supplied by your card marker.

but it a fact its an internal sensor located inside the video core/chipset

strop · Jan 9, 2004, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
well with asus they disable useing the overdrive feature they turn it off in thier drivers so they can use smartdoctor insted.

if they used other then the referance design for the cooler it could be disabled by your board maker.
try useing the drivers supplied by www.ati.com and not those supplied by your card marker.

but it a fact its an internal sensor located inside the video core/chipset

Ok, now I will demonstrate you that you are wrong on this point. This is a part of some replies that a friend of mine has received from Sapphire (he has same problem of mine with a Sapphire 9600XT: no overdrive tab):

Quote:

Our XT series cards does not offer this option, we do offer the redline over clocking utility for users who wants to over clock their cards, or you can download software such as omega driver, Riva Tuner or Rage3d tweak... ...One difference between the ATI card and Sapphire card is our card does not support the over driver tab option on ATI CAT drivers. The card will be recognize as 9600 series that is just how the driver is written. And this card does not have temp sensor option. Last the CAT 3.10 is suppose to give you this over drive tab option but Sapphire type cards will not be able to show it because we offer our own redline utility or you can download other over clocking utility.

Then, it seems that on the market there are many 9600xt without thermal diode...

strop · Jan 10, 2004, 11:39 AM

At this point, I think that it would be right if on the main forums on Radeon cards, it will be published a thread with a list of all the 9600xt boards (with exact name of the model) that are working with overdrive feature and wich not. In this way, users that are interested at the overdrive feature can buy a Radeon 9600XT board without consult a fortune teller first...

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
Ok, now I will demonstrate you that you are wrong on this point. This is a part of some replies that a friend of mine has received from Sapphire (he has same problem of mine with a Sapphire 9600XT: no overdrive tab):

Then, it seems that on the market there are many 9600xt without thermal diode...

you dont under stand ..... the cjipon you card is eactly the same as mine and mine has the diode...
it is made inside the chip...

if you dont fallow ati's cooler desighn they disable it bcouse it wil not work proplerly with out the specific cooler it was desighned to work with...

the diode is buit into every single xt chip that comes off the line... and into evey chip that goes on any video card that is an xt no matter whomakes it

some of them chose to disable the feature to use thier own utillities
some dont fallow the referace cooler design
eather way it was the makers choice/actions that resulted it the feature being disabled.
the feature is still there they chosen for u not to be able to use it

saphire doesn't use the referance design neather does asus

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
At this point, I think that it would be right if on the main forums on Radeon cards, it will be published a thread with a list of all the 9600xt boards (with exact name of the model) that are working with overdrive feature and wich not. In this way, users that are interested at the overdrive feature can buy a Radeon 9600XT board without consult a fortune teller first...

that is a good idea
but the telltale sign that it has overdrive enabled
is the referance cooler design

strop · Jan 10, 2004, 06:29 PM

Quote:

the diode is buit into every single xt chip that comes off the line... and into evey chip that goes on any video card that is an xt no matter whomakes it

can you assure me that this is absolutely true at 100% ? Are you an ATi engineer or have you talked with an ATi engineer on this? Excuse me, but I would like to be SURE that the things are how you say.
Anyway, how the cooler fan is related with the thermal diode? The temp sensor is supposed to works with any cooler fan (how it is for the cooler fan of the Amd and Intel CPU on motherboards). I'm wrong on this?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
Anyway, how the cooler fan is related with the thermal diode? The temp sensor is supposed to works with any cooler fan (how it is for the cooler fan of the Amd and Intel CPU on motherboards). I'm wrong on this?

the feature is deigned to give a "safe" auto overclock, clocks up and down with tempature changes.. based on the referace cooler...the diode is temp diode the chip so the temps are super acurate

useing a better or worse cooler and it would varry to much... to good of a cooler the card could possable overclock it self too far. to poor and mabe it would not o/c or even wose o/c and damage the card

it is my understanding that anyone that uses other then the referance design could not use.utillise the overdrive feature....

i dont know weather ati made them disable it, or they chose to disable it or weater ati is factory disabling it but the chips are the same...

heck most ati an nvida fire gl chips are the same as thier consumer counter parts they just have sigle cap change to mabe chage the device id/ and to enable diable features. thats how people can mod their cards from the standrd ver to the $$$ opengl versions

chip manufactoring an design is expensive to make on chip with an another with out would cost them so much money you could only dream about so thier is more a 99.9999999% chance that the chips are the same.

and for eample i also have read somewere that asus disabled the feature to use smartdoctor...

if you use the www.ati.com drivers and you get no overdrive tab it most likely the result of the device id or setting in the cards firmware. wich could be updated or changed to another cards to possably renable it but with risk of frying the card...

HolyAvenger · Jan 10, 2004, 07:15 PM

One would think that the fan design shouldn't influence the feature itself, but only how far the auto overclock will go. After all, the drivers determine how far they can overclock by reading the temperature, no ? Like there's a set highest safe temperature and the clock gets adjusted on the fly to maintain temperature at or below that level.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HolyAvenger
One would think that the fan design shouldn't influence the feature itself, but only how far the auto overclock will go. After all, the drivers determine how far they can overclock by reading the temperature, no ? Like there's a set highest safe temperature and the clock gets adjusted on the fly to maintain temperature at or below that level.

i know but i dont think they never meant the feature to be for super overclocking the cards.. its ment for a safe overclock only....

strop · Jan 10, 2004, 08:52 PM

The thing of overdrive that I am very interested to isn't the dynamic overclocking feature, but the temperature monitor. No overdrive support = no temperature monitor.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
The thing of overdrive that I am very interested to isn't the dynamic overclocking feature, but the temperature monitor. No overdrive support = no temperature monitor.

actually even with the overdrive tab the temp is not displayed but will in an upcomeing realese

strop · Jan 11, 2004, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
actually even with the overdrive tab the temp is not displayed but will in an upcomeing realese

If you have overdrive support on your board, then with RivaTuner you can display core clock, memory clock and your gpu temperature in real time.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 11, 2004, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
If you have overdrive support on your board, then with RivaTuner you can display core clock, memory clock and your gpu temperature in real time.

how becouse i have riva turner and 9600XT and i have the overdrive support ....
there is no temapure display i could find in riva turer

read the readme...

Version 2.0 Release Candidate 14.3 New Year edition:

*Added experimental ASUS 9800XT-specific core/ambient temperature monitoring.

notice it says 9800xt meaning if you dont have 9800xt and its not made by asus then it wont work

strop · Jan 11, 2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
how becouse i have riva turner and 9600XT and i have the overdrive support ....
there is no temapure display i could find in riva turer

read the readme...

Version 2.0 Release Candidate 14.3 New Year edition:

*Added experimental ASUS 9800XT-specific core/ambient temperature monitoring.

notice it says 9800xt meaning if you dont have 9800xt and its not made by asus then it wont work

I have read it. It says also that (and it says it before the asus note):

Quote:

Low-level hardware monitoring module for all supported ATI and NVIDIA graphics processors:

* Core and memory clock history graphs are very helpful for understanding dynamic 2D/3D clock frequency adjustment on NV3x+ boards and driver-level overclocking protections on some ATI GPU based boards.
* Core and ambient temperature monitoring for all NV30/NV35/NV38 based boards.
* Core and ambient temperature monitoring for reference design R360 based boards with LM63 sensor.

Then, I think it's a more general support, and then it specifies that on asus 9800xt there are some problems with temp accuracy.

Do you see that in this note there is a reference to 'R360 based boards with LM63 sensor' ? Then, I deduce that not all the R360 based boards have this sensor...

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 11, 2004, 03:48 PM

still the fact is my board has the sensor and i see no were in riva tuner to check my temps

strop · Jan 11, 2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
still the fact is my board has the sensor and i see no were in riva tuner to check my temps

Have you activated overdrive function before load RivaTuner? The temp monitor should be in the gpu/mem monitor graph window of RivaTuner.

Zebra · Jan 13, 2004, 03:40 PM

I found out that if you are using Powerstrip, it will remove the Overdrive tab completely. I know, because I installed it. I had to remove Powerstrip, and reinstall the Omega drivers to get the tab back.

strop · Jan 13, 2004, 04:45 PM

I have never used Powerstrip. I use RivaTuner.
Anyway, this is part of another reply from Sapphire tech on the question of temp sensor on their 9600XT:

"...No the thermocouple is not installed, (it added too much cost).

Regards..."

Then now is official: the thermal diode is not a built-in chip component. It should be on the PCB.
Then many productors have chosen to disable overdrive support for save some cents on their 9600XT production lines.
It's all ATi fault in my opinion. ATi would have had to force the productors to SUPPORT overdrive feature.

It's obvious that productors want to save moneys and many of them would do everything to reach this objective.

Zebra · Jan 13, 2004, 08:13 PM

Just how much would that sensor cost? Is the price of the Sapphire card that much cheaper than an ATI boxed one?

strop · Jan 13, 2004, 10:22 PM

The ridicule thing is that temp sensor would be more useful on 9600XT series than 9800XT series, because the 9800XT are very little overclockable cards...

deekey777 · Jan 13, 2004, 10:38 PM

Some 9600XT may have the "old" 9600-PCB ->no overdrive

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 14, 2004, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strop
Have you activated overdrive function before load RivaTuner? The temp monitor should be in the gpu/mem monitor graph window of RivaTuner.

look right here ... went the the whole thing there are no temp readings anywere useing ati or omegas 3.10's

Also....
ati will have a thing displaying temps in an upcomeing build

Quote:

Originally posted by Zebra
Just how much would that sensor cost?

very very cheap....

i'll look into this

Jan 8, 2004, 05:24 PM	#1
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Overdrive only in some 9600XT boards? Hi all, I have bought a GeXCube 9600XT and with Catalyst 3.10 doesn't appears any overdrive option in the control panel. Now my questions are: 1) This board, and all the others on wich the overdrive option doesn't appear in control panel (sapphire, power color, asus, ecc.) will have this function in future releases of Catalyst? 2) It's a bios problem or a drivers problem? 3) If I update my vga bios with the bios of another 9600XT (on wich the overdrive is working), it's possible that I can damage my vga and that, after the update, the vga will not boot up anymore? Tnx for replies.

Jan 9, 2004, 02:07 AM	#4
Zebra DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California,USA Posts: 198 Rep Power: 0	I have this option on my ATI branded 9600XT, with the Omega Drivers installed. However, it will not let you set any clocking options, and so far from what I read, will not go more than 7Mhz higer than stock anyways. I just use RivaTuner to set the overclocking. So far I'm at 571/650 with no hitches. Have run the Artifact tester as well as 3DMark03 several times with no hiccups. Multitexture fill rate is at 2089M now. __________________ My current system as of 04/20/06: M/B: ABIT K8U Socket 754 RAM: 1024MB Corsair Select CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ (Clawhammer) VIDEO: ATI Radeon AIW X800 XT 256MB AGP8X AUDIO: SB Audigy 2 DISK: Maxtor 7200rpm 200GB 8MB cache SATA drive DVD/RW: Sony DRU-800A DL Dual Format DVD/CD Burner CD/RW : TEAC 48X CD Burner OS: WIN XP PRO w/SP2 VID DRIVERS: Latest Omega Radeon Drivers PSU: ANTEC 500W

Jan 9, 2004, 03:37 PM	#6
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	dude the chip sensor it inside the built xt chipset..... it it doesnt have the sensor its not a xt chip .... what the clock rate on that card? the 500/600 that the xt has? __________________

Jan 11, 2004, 03:48 PM	#23
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	still the fact is my board has the sensor and i see no were in riva tuner to check my temps __________________

Jan 13, 2004, 03:40 PM	#25
Zebra DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California,USA Posts: 198 Rep Power: 0	I found out that if you are using Powerstrip, it will remove the Overdrive tab completely. I know, because I installed it. I had to remove Powerstrip, and reinstall the Omega drivers to get the tab back. __________________ My current system as of 04/20/06: M/B: ABIT K8U Socket 754 RAM: 1024MB Corsair Select CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ (Clawhammer) VIDEO: ATI Radeon AIW X800 XT 256MB AGP8X AUDIO: SB Audigy 2 DISK: Maxtor 7200rpm 200GB 8MB cache SATA drive DVD/RW: Sony DRU-800A DL Dual Format DVD/CD Burner CD/RW : TEAC 48X CD Burner OS: WIN XP PRO w/SP2 VID DRIVERS: Latest Omega Radeon Drivers PSU: ANTEC 500W

Jan 9, 2004, 12:44 AM	Thread Starter #3
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Ok, I have disinstalled all the ATi drivers, hydravision, control panel, ecc., then I have rebooted in safe mode and I have launched Cab Cleaner then Drive Cleaner. Then I have rebooted, I have installed Catalyst 3.10 driver and reboot. Overdrive option? Nothing... On the support page of the gexcube site, there are only Catalyst 3.6!! I don't want to think that some boards haven't the temp sensor... Anyway, I have heard that many 9600xt users have same problem (with sapphire, powercolor, gexcube). Then my conclusion is that who have this option is a very lucky guy... I'm not interested in the (little) overclocking feature of overdrive, but at the possibility of downclock dinamically the core when it isn't busy with 3D operations.

Jan 9, 2004, 10:54 AM	Thread Starter #5
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Zebra, I'm happy for you, but I have said before that I'm not much interested to overclocking feature of overdrive, but I'm interested at the possibility of dynamic downclock when the board isn't busy and at the temperature sensor display (as for nvidia boards since from FX5600ultra). Anyway I would be very disappointed if some boards doesn't have temp sensor. The overdrive is supposed to be one of the very little features of the XT series. If you remove this feature what remains? A 9600Pro board overclocked... I hope that some catalyst driver maker can give me some explanations on this problem. Thanks for reply anyway.

Jan 9, 2004, 07:32 PM	#8
HolyAvenger DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 83 Rep Power: 0	I have the Sapphire 9600 XT 256 MB, and sure enough there's no Overdrive tab.

Jan 10, 2004, 11:39 AM	Thread Starter #12
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	At this point, I think that it would be right if on the main forums on Radeon cards, it will be published a thread with a list of all the 9600xt boards (with exact name of the model) that are working with overdrive feature and wich not. In this way, users that are interested at the overdrive feature can buy a Radeon 9600XT board without consult a fortune teller first...

Jan 10, 2004, 07:15 PM	#16
HolyAvenger DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 83 Rep Power: 0	One would think that the fan design shouldn't influence the feature itself, but only how far the auto overclock will go. After all, the drivers determine how far they can overclock by reading the temperature, no ? Like there's a set highest safe temperature and the clock gets adjusted on the fly to maintain temperature at or below that level.

Jan 10, 2004, 08:52 PM	Thread Starter #18
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	The thing of overdrive that I am very interested to isn't the dynamic overclocking feature, but the temperature monitor. No overdrive support = no temperature monitor.

Jan 13, 2004, 04:45 PM	Thread Starter #26
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	I have never used Powerstrip. I use RivaTuner. Anyway, this is part of another reply from Sapphire tech on the question of temp sensor on their 9600XT: "...No the thermocouple is not installed, (it added too much cost). Regards..." Then now is official: the thermal diode is not a built-in chip component. It should be on the PCB. Then many productors have chosen to disable overdrive support for save some cents on their 9600XT production lines. It's all ATi fault in my opinion. ATi would have had to force the productors to SUPPORT overdrive feature. It's obvious that productors want to save moneys and many of them would do everything to reach this objective.

Jan 13, 2004, 08:13 PM	#27
Zebra DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California,USA Posts: 198 Rep Power: 0	Just how much would that sensor cost? Is the price of the Sapphire card that much cheaper than an ATI boxed one? __________________ My current system as of 04/20/06: M/B: ABIT K8U Socket 754 RAM: 1024MB Corsair Select CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ (Clawhammer) VIDEO: ATI Radeon AIW X800 XT 256MB AGP8X AUDIO: SB Audigy 2 DISK: Maxtor 7200rpm 200GB 8MB cache SATA drive DVD/RW: Sony DRU-800A DL Dual Format DVD/CD Burner CD/RW : TEAC 48X CD Burner OS: WIN XP PRO w/SP2 VID DRIVERS: Latest Omega Radeon Drivers PSU: ANTEC 500W

Jan 13, 2004, 10:22 PM	Thread Starter #28
strop DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	The ridicule thing is that temp sensor would be more useful on 9600XT series than 9800XT series, because the 9800XT are very little overclockable cards...

Jan 13, 2004, 10:38 PM	#29
deekey777 Grünschnabel Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Good Old Germany Posts: 285 Rep Power: 0	Some 9600XT may have the "old" 9600-PCB ->no overdrive __________________ I know, my english is terrible.