ATI Temporal Tool

Zardon · Jul 8, 2004, 07:48 PM

Ive been noticing a few people have been having issues with Temporal AA not showing up in their control panels. Ive been chatting with ATI today and they have kindly allowed me to host a tool ive had for a while now. Just download this small archive, extract and turn it on or off. simple as that. If you somehow manage to get lost, there is a readme in the archive. Also guys TAA is broken in the new 4.7 driver panel for those on NON english OSes, this will be fixed in 4.8.

<img src="http://www.hardwareheaven.com/zardon/atitemporal.jpg" width="311" height="80">

download here

please note this application is copyright to ATI technologies

Drakon · Jul 8, 2004, 07:59 PM

hey Z, does this tool only work with the cat. 4.7's or does it work with older drivers like the omega 4.6's?

Zardon · Jul 8, 2004, 08:00 PM

ive never tried it with the omegas, but it should work with any new driver (4.6 for sure), from my experience anyway........ try it.

FallOutBoyTonto · Jul 8, 2004, 08:02 PM

I wonder if this tool will continue to be developed? Like adding the temporal multiplier and threshold? Or just an enable/disable switch and thats it? Seems like a good idea, just not quite enough functionality.

Zardon · Jul 8, 2004, 08:10 PM

its not really meant to be "indepth". it was an internal tool and testers used it before the option was available in drivers - offical or beta. just an early toggle option.

The only reason its up for download is due to the fact a few people have experienced issues in getting the TAA to show in their control panel, im always trying to help you guys out as middle man here and I figured id ask them if they would allow me to host it for those with issues.

I have to say i prefer the option in a seperate little app rather than in the panel as I can turn it on or off without fiddling too much.

ATI really do care about you guys believe it or not - I know to alot of you guys they are pretty much a faceless corporation but I know alot of them really well and once they heard of the issues they wanted me to share it with you guys.

Falstaff · Jul 8, 2004, 08:11 PM

I have never seen this feature...what am I missing?

Zardon · Jul 8, 2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
I have never seen this feature...what am I missing?

? its only a new option jeff in the 4.7 panel. this app allows you to turn Temporal AA on or off without going into the panel.

Falstaff · Jul 8, 2004, 08:28 PM

ohhhh....I indulge in Omega...hmmmm

Zeode · Jul 8, 2004, 10:27 PM

Just a thought, I have had occasion where new cat drivers were installed and the menus in video advanced button were not updated properly. To fix the problem I used the catalyst uninstall tool from ati and then reinstalled the new driver and the problem was fixed.

Perhaps this would work for this situation as well?
Would be interesting to know.

Zardon · Jul 8, 2004, 10:38 PM

might work for those on english oses who are having the issue, but the language support for non english OSes isnt working, will be fixed in 4.8

Drakon · Jul 9, 2004, 03:34 AM

well i d/l it and enabled it, though i am not quite sure that it's working with the omega 4.6's...

Shadow Lady · Jul 9, 2004, 04:02 AM

so it enables the TAA with 60 for threshold or whatever?

Geminiwave · Jul 9, 2004, 06:02 AM

I dont really know if it is working. am I suppose to restart? I dont see any difference on games but then again all I really play is Halo, Ragnarok, and UT2004. I mean theres not alot there. I also have farcry but never play it.

question: is there any disadvantage to having this enabled? I mean like, are there pros and cons to this or something? I'd like to know, because I'm always alittle paranoid about running something new on my baby.

Zardon · Jul 9, 2004, 09:06 AM

for those asking if its working - it should work immediately even without a restart. Its hard to tell if its on although in games with static information panels at the bottom of the screen you can sometimes see flickering. I noticed it quite dramatically in warcraft III when it was on.

Remember guys if your card cant give a high enough frame rate in a game it will turn itself off.

It works by alternating between two different pre-defined sample patterns every frame. This causes a slight fluctuation in the colors of anti-aliased edges that is visible at low frame rates. However, as the frame rate approaches the display refresh rate, the persistence of the display causes the results of the two sample patterns to combine into a single result. This produces an image that appears to have twice as many samples per pixel as it actually does, providing a significant image quality benefit with no performance impact. The effect is particularly striking with 2x temporal MSAA, where the resulting image is virtually indistinguishable from standard 4x MSAA yet runs much faster.

In order to avoid the flickering artifacts that can occur at lower frame rates, it can be temporarily disabled by the driver if the frame rate drops below a defined threshold, and re-enabled when they climb back above it. In this case, the display would revert to standard MSAA.

Danhill · Jul 9, 2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
In order to avoid the flickering artifacts that can occur at lower frame rates, it can be temporarily disabled by the driver if the frame rate drops below a defined threshold, and re-enabled when they climb back above it. In this case, the display would revert to standard MSAA.

Great info Z, does that mean that there will be some kind of small lag when the Temp AA switches on/off??

m03 · Jul 9, 2004, 09:27 AM

Yes Shadow Lady I believe the default threshold is 60fps. And it does work on Omega 4.6's. A good game to test for me was Colin McRae 4.0, the car selection screen really shows off the TAA well, mmm curvy

Zardon · Jul 9, 2004, 09:32 AM

you can download this http://www.users.on.net/triforce/d3d...aaviewer-5.zip

When you run this little program, you should see a rapid flickering between two different sample patterns - if you do, its enabled.

jkayca2 · Jul 9, 2004, 02:20 PM

Temporal Anti-Aliasing. Sounds like something from a bad Star Trek episode. Does this feature work on all ATI Radeons?

Geminiwave · Jul 9, 2004, 06:55 PM

I think i read somewhere that it only really works on R350 and up. I might be wrong on that though.

Zardon · Jul 10, 2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danhill
Great info Z, does that mean that there will be some kind of small lag when the Temp AA switches on/off??

unfortunately it can be quite noticeable yes. some people seem to see it more than others.

Xploited Titan · Jul 10, 2004, 01:40 PM

Not for me thus...

I'm already disturbed by neon lamps as I see their flickering...

Geminiwave · Jul 10, 2004, 06:09 PM

I havent noticed a difference. Then again I have a 15" monitor...you really cant notice a whole lot of ANYTHING on that

this · Jul 12, 2004, 11:45 AM

Hi, Zardon, the switch tool causes an invalid operation exception on my system.

WinXP SP1 / Omega 4.6 / Radeon9500 NP / C2.4G + i865PE

Zardon · Jul 12, 2004, 11:46 AM

possibly omegas modded drivers causing the issue?

~~BMG_Cya=-~~ · Jul 12, 2004, 02:38 PM

Might be just me but....

Hmmm...I have had Temporal AA on before, (Usually at 4T) or at least thought I had.

I just tried this little tool in FarCry, and I have to say that on my card/system
Temp AA looks and performs worse than just normal AA.

I tried both at the same resolution, and even set the temporal threshhold low,
20, and took the first screenshot.

The second screen shows the same type of environment with just Regular forced 4xAA.
(This one I reduced in size from my playing res of 1280 x 960...dunno why...old pic)

It's not so noticeable in FarCry but in NFSU...Temporal AA is way too blurry.

Also...Temporal FORCED on with the dev tool...made my game jerky in places, where
with the settings on regular AA...there was no jerkiness.

Virus · Jul 12, 2004, 04:26 PM

From the Readme of the Tool:

Because temporal AA using alternating sample patters from frame-to-frame, the effect cannot be seen in the screenshots that capture only a single frame.

~~BMG_Cya=-~~ · Jul 12, 2004, 04:40 PM

Forgot about that.

Still in game...with actual frames and everything moving...I still see better IQ and performance with regular AA as opposed to Temporal. Might be just me....could be the entire planet....

Zardon · Jul 12, 2004, 04:41 PM

yes you cant capture Temporal AA in a screenshot, It works by alternating between two different pre-defined sample patterns every frame.

Zardon · Jul 12, 2004, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG_Cya=-
Forgot about that.

Still in game...with actual frames and everything moving...I still see better IQ and performance with regular AA as opposed to Temporal. Might be just me....could be the entire planet....

well of course standard AA is better but you are taking double the performance hit over Temporal AA. I think people are misinterpretting exactly what TAA is for. Its for people who are wanting higher AA quality but cant afford to take the performance hit. If you have a fast enough system to run 1280x1024 at 4aa then run standard MSAA not TAA. those who dont should reap benefits from 2AA with TAA enabled, if their machines can sustain a high enough frame rate.

Psyman · Jul 20, 2004, 11:33 AM

first off let me thank you for this tool you provided for us.. i just got an x800 pro along with 3200xp. 1 gig twinx pc3200, 80 g hitachi sata, audigy2... so i shouldnt have any problems running temporal aa, but when i enable it and run farcry i noticed my fps drop to 60 and then run downward from there - tried at 1280x1024 and 1024x768 res, same thing happens.. when i disable it i get well over 100 fps no matter where i am on the maps.. temp AA seems to force my frames down and im wondering what may cause this?

Jul 8, 2004, 07:48 PM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	ATI Temporal Switch Tool Ive been noticing a few people have been having issues with Temporal AA not showing up in their control panels. Ive been chatting with ATI today and they have kindly allowed me to host a tool ive had for a while now. Just download this small archive, extract and turn it on or off. simple as that. If you somehow manage to get lost, there is a readme in the archive. Also guys TAA is broken in the new 4.7 driver panel for those on NON english OSes, this will be fixed in 4.8. <img src="http://www.hardwareheaven.com/zardon/atitemporal.jpg" width="311" height="80"> download here please note this application is copyright to ATI technologies

Jul 8, 2004, 08:02 PM	#4
FallOutBoyTonto DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Nunavut - Canada Posts: 108 Rep Power: 0	I wonder if this tool will continue to be developed? Like adding the temporal multiplier and threshold? Or just an enable/disable switch and thats it? Seems like a good idea, just not quite enough functionality. __________________

Jul 8, 2004, 08:11 PM	#6
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	I have never seen this feature...what am I missing? __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 8, 2004, 08:28 PM	#8
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	ohhhh....I indulge in Omega...hmmmm __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jul 9, 2004, 04:02 AM	#12
Shadow Lady Avril Fan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere in colombia, okok, bogotá city :p Posts: 1,262 Rep Power: 0	so it enables the TAA with 60 for threshold or whatever? __________________ Oblivion ftw

Jul 8, 2004, 07:59 PM	#2
Drakon DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Floatin'... Posts: 4,957 Rep Power: 0	hey Z, does this tool only work with the cat. 4.7's or does it work with older drivers like the omega 4.6's?

Jul 8, 2004, 08:00 PM	Thread Starter #3
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	ive never tried it with the omegas, but it should work with any new driver (4.6 for sure), from my experience anyway........ try it.

Jul 8, 2004, 08:10 PM	Thread Starter #5
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	its not really meant to be "indepth". it was an internal tool and testers used it before the option was available in drivers - offical or beta. just an early toggle option. The only reason its up for download is due to the fact a few people have experienced issues in getting the TAA to show in their control panel, im always trying to help you guys out as middle man here and I figured id ask them if they would allow me to host it for those with issues. I have to say i prefer the option in a seperate little app rather than in the panel as I can turn it on or off without fiddling too much. ATI really do care about you guys believe it or not - I know to alot of you guys they are pretty much a faceless corporation but I know alot of them really well and once they heard of the issues they wanted me to share it with you guys.

Jul 8, 2004, 10:27 PM	#9
Zeode DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sf Bay area Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Just a thought, I have had occasion where new cat drivers were installed and the menus in video advanced button were not updated properly. To fix the problem I used the catalyst uninstall tool from ati and then reinstalled the new driver and the problem was fixed. Perhaps this would work for this situation as well? Would be interesting to know.

Jul 8, 2004, 10:38 PM	Thread Starter #10
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	might work for those on english oses who are having the issue, but the language support for non english OSes isnt working, will be fixed in 4.8

Jul 9, 2004, 03:34 AM	#11
Drakon DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Floatin'... Posts: 4,957 Rep Power: 0	well i d/l it and enabled it, though i am not quite sure that it's working with the omega 4.6's...

Jul 9, 2004, 06:02 AM	#13
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	I dont really know if it is working. am I suppose to restart? I dont see any difference on games but then again all I really play is Halo, Ragnarok, and UT2004. I mean theres not alot there. I also have farcry but never play it. question: is there any disadvantage to having this enabled? I mean like, are there pros and cons to this or something? I'd like to know, because I'm always alittle paranoid about running something new on my baby.

Jul 9, 2004, 09:06 AM	Thread Starter #14
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	for those asking if its working - it should work immediately even without a restart. Its hard to tell if its on although in games with static information panels at the bottom of the screen you can sometimes see flickering. I noticed it quite dramatically in warcraft III when it was on. Remember guys if your card cant give a high enough frame rate in a game it will turn itself off. It works by alternating between two different pre-defined sample patterns every frame. This causes a slight fluctuation in the colors of anti-aliased edges that is visible at low frame rates. However, as the frame rate approaches the display refresh rate, the persistence of the display causes the results of the two sample patterns to combine into a single result. This produces an image that appears to have twice as many samples per pixel as it actually does, providing a significant image quality benefit with no performance impact. The effect is particularly striking with 2x temporal MSAA, where the resulting image is virtually indistinguishable from standard 4x MSAA yet runs much faster. In order to avoid the flickering artifacts that can occur at lower frame rates, it can be temporarily disabled by the driver if the frame rate drops below a defined threshold, and re-enabled when they climb back above it. In this case, the display would revert to standard MSAA.

Jul 9, 2004, 09:27 AM	#16
m03 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	TAA Threshold Yes Shadow Lady I believe the default threshold is 60fps. And it does work on Omega 4.6's. A good game to test for me was Colin McRae 4.0, the car selection screen really shows off the TAA well, mmm curvy

Jul 9, 2004, 09:32 AM	Thread Starter #17
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	you can download this http://www.users.on.net/triforce/d3d...aaviewer-5.zip When you run this little program, you should see a rapid flickering between two different sample patterns - if you do, its enabled.

Jul 9, 2004, 02:20 PM	#18
jkayca2 DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 379 Rep Power: 0	Temporal Anti-Aliasing. Sounds like something from a bad Star Trek episode. Does this feature work on all ATI Radeons? __________________ [color=Blue]PNY Verto GeFORCE 6800GT AGP 256MB DDR3 - 1 GHz Win XP Pro (SP 2) - Directx 9.0c Intel P4 2.8C GHz - Abit IS7 Mobo 2x512 + 2x1024 MB PC 3200 DDR WD 74 GB Raptor + WD 120 GB HD with 8 MB Cache Hercules Gamesurround Fortissmo 7.1 Logitech Z5500 Speaker System Leadtek WinFast TV 2000 XP Deluxe LG GSA-4160B DVD Burner Logitech LX700 Keyb, mouse combo Mitsubishi DiamondPro 2070SB 22" CRT[/color]

Jul 9, 2004, 06:55 PM	#19
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	I think i read somewhere that it only really works on R350 and up. I might be wrong on that though.

Jul 10, 2004, 01:40 PM	#21
Xploited Titan Driverheaven's evil Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brussels, capital of Belgium Posts: 207 Rep Power: 0	Not for me thus... I'm already disturbed by neon lamps as I see their flickering... __________________ I see living people...

Jul 10, 2004, 06:09 PM	#22
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	I havent noticed a difference. Then again I have a 15" monitor...you really cant notice a whole lot of ANYTHING on that

Jul 12, 2004, 11:45 AM	#23
this DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	Hi, Zardon, the switch tool causes an invalid operation exception on my system. WinXP SP1 / Omega 4.6 / Radeon9500 NP / C2.4G + i865PE

Jul 12, 2004, 11:46 AM	Thread Starter #24
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	possibly omegas modded drivers causing the issue?

Jul 12, 2004, 02:38 PM	#25
~~BMG_Cya=-~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 718 Rep Power: 0	Might be just me but.... Hmmm...I have had Temporal AA on before, (Usually at 4T) or at least thought I had. I just tried this little tool in FarCry, and I have to say that on my card/system Temp AA looks and performs worse than just normal AA. I tried both at the same resolution, and even set the temporal threshhold low, 20, and took the first screenshot. The second screen shows the same type of environment with just Regular forced 4xAA. (This one I reduced in size from my playing res of 1280 x 960...dunno why...old pic) It's not so noticeable in FarCry but in NFSU...Temporal AA is way too blurry. Also...Temporal FORCED on with the dev tool...made my game jerky in places, where with the settings on regular AA...there was no jerkiness.

Jul 12, 2004, 04:26 PM	#26
Virus DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 42 Rep Power: 0	From the Readme of the Tool: Because temporal AA using alternating sample patters from frame-to-frame, the effect cannot be seen in the screenshots that capture only a single frame.

Jul 12, 2004, 04:40 PM	#27
~~BMG_Cya=-~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 718 Rep Power: 0	Forgot about that. Still in game...with actual frames and everything moving...I still see better IQ and performance with regular AA as opposed to Temporal. Might be just me....could be the entire planet....

Jul 12, 2004, 04:41 PM	Thread Starter #28
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	yes you cant capture Temporal AA in a screenshot, It works by alternating between two different pre-defined sample patterns every frame.

Jul 20, 2004, 11:33 AM	#30
Psyman DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	first off let me thank you for this tool you provided for us.. i just got an x800 pro along with 3200xp. 1 gig twinx pc3200, 80 g hitachi sata, audigy2... so i shouldnt have any problems running temporal aa, but when i enable it and run farcry i noticed my fps drop to 60 and then run downward from there - tried at 1280x1024 and 1024x768 res, same thing happens.. when i disable it i get well over 100 fps no matter where i am on the maps.. temp AA seems to force my frames down and im wondering what may cause this?