Good news for Catalyst 5.6

cheese_thief · May 31, 2005, 05:58 AM

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23594

The article states that there will be a big speed increase in some games in the 5.6's, some will see up to 20%, and in one case, 50% (LO:MAC)

Looking forward to these!

In other news, Paris Hilton is getting engaged...

Ev!L-aLphA · May 31, 2005, 06:11 AM

in even other news brittny spears is pregnant and she has a stupid pointless show on mtv.

cheese_thief · May 31, 2005, 06:13 AM

So, um, what do you think about the 5.6's?

**MIG-31** · May 31, 2005, 06:17 AM

With this news from the inq...... we will see!

wolfran · May 31, 2005, 06:21 AM

I think if it's true it will be one heck of a driver.
I'm also thinking that the optimisation could be just games specific optimisations because I believe that the ATI drivers these days already have the Z buffer optimisation, unless they improve the optimisation even further.
So maybe you'll see great improvements (15-30%) in some games while minor improvements (<5%) on the other games. Nevertheles it's a great improvement if the inquirer is correct.
BTW, I'm not against game specific optimisation, actually I'm quite supportive of the idea.

daRk_heLmet · May 31, 2005, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIG-31

With this news from the inq...... we will see!

well, to be honest, whatever Inq has been posting for the last few days, or rather, past week to 10 days about ATi stuff....all is true, I mean even Zardon said he was surprised how they get leaked info etc...

dsdsdk · May 31, 2005, 06:40 AM

"ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders."

arent the pixels intended to be there? why not just remove all textures then... then itll run even faster!

**MIG-31** · May 31, 2005, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daRk_heLmet

well, to be honest, whatever Inq has been posting for the last few days, or rather, past week to 10 days about ATi stuff....all is true, I mean even Zardon said he was surprised how they get leaked info etc...

It will certainly be interesting to see if the 5.6's do gain the performance increases....and i'm not totally knocking the inq because as always rumours do occasionally come true..we should hopefully be testing these out in the next two weeks.

BWX · May 31, 2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsdsdk

"ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders."

arent the pixels intended to be there? why not just remove all textures then... then itll run even faster!

A pixel is the texture- or whatever other calculation it takes to define the pixel.

---------------
will this work on all cards? Anyway, I wonder why they haven't done this sooner if it was possible.

PoopyTheJ · May 31, 2005, 07:07 AM

Can't wait to take those apart

griswoold · May 31, 2005, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsdsdk

"ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders."

arent the pixels intended to be there? why not just remove all textures then... then itll run even faster!

Some pixels are often occluded by others and wouldn't need to be processed. Early z-test are used to disacard as many of those occludded pixels so no pixelshader or textures need to be applied.

So they optimized their early- z testing in some of those games so more occluded pixels are discarded then usually , which means better performance

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 31, 2005, 07:45 AM

remember the "source", grain of salt and all that....

Zorg · May 31, 2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWX

A pixel is the texture- or whatever other calculation it takes to define the pixel.

---------------
will this work on all cards? Anyway, I wonder why they haven't done this sooner if it was possible.

A pixel is a pixel - it's just a light dot. A texture is made of many, many pixels.
Honestly, texture compression is a stone old feature but ATi is just a little behind

Drakon · May 31, 2005, 10:00 AM

Can anyone help me carry my grain of salt? it's sorta big

BWX · May 31, 2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorg

A pixel is a pixel - it's just a light dot. A texture is made of many, many pixels.
Honestly, texture compression is a stone old feature but ATi is just a little behind

yeah- cant have a texture without a pixel. If they eliminate the pixel, there will be no texture- at least where that pixel would have been if excluded.

Mort_Cinder · May 31, 2005, 10:53 AM

there are no references as to how the source engine will benefit (hl2 and cs:s). hopefully we will also see a performance boosts there too

philou · May 31, 2005, 11:03 AM

I hope you are right and that the Source engine will benefit those improvements

One strange thing is they say 50 % but no example and no reference to this particular improvements

I think that the Pixel thing is related to the Hidden Surface thing that permit the GPU to render only the thing we see on screen (but i could be wrong)
I remember that ATI was not that good in this particular techniques.
The best was Kyro at this...

Well we will just have to wait hope it is not --------

Mr cairo · May 31, 2005, 11:04 AM

well ill be ever the optamist and say that this is good news

BWX · May 31, 2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

I think that the Pixel thing is related to the Hidden Surface thing that permit the GPU to render only the thing we see on screen (but i could be wrong)

Quote:

ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders. I guess that this is an allowed method and Halo might be running even fifteen per cent faster.

Yeah that is what they are doing, but only optimizing the performance by NOT applying the calculations needed to make the pixel shaders of the pixel not seen.. there is a lot more to each pixel than just the shader.

It seems that only games which implement pixel shaders will benefit.. so it seems HL2 will be one if running in DX9 mode, depending on the GFX settings in the game. That is if this is not game specific, but I don't think it is by the way they describe it. Of course this is all speculation based on speculation.

daedal · May 31, 2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakon

Can anyone help me carry my grain of salt? it's sorta big

Can't wait for that release, although nothing is mentioned about HL2/CS:S. Looks like they're going for better benchmark scores. Guess we'll see.

petri1 · May 31, 2005, 11:25 AM

well guess we will be aware of the improvments in say 2-3Weeks

but if that is the case .....can´t wait

BWX · May 31, 2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petri1

well guess we will be aware of the improvments in say 2-3Weeks

but if that is the case .....can´t wait

If they are right- June 7th - only a week.

wiskerbizkit · May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM

From the sound of it they were rendering pixels that you couldnt see anyways. But im not gonna believe the hype yet ive been stung to many times for that

petri1 · May 31, 2005, 12:33 PM

i must say if ATi had a "speed bump" after 4.12 to 5.5´s then almost anything can happen

it would be great to see new 5.6´s 7th of June but if i expect them to come out a week after then i won´t be liek what where are they and instead be supprised if they do come out earlier or something like that

magicpants · May 31, 2005, 01:57 PM

So with drivers featuring better 'culling', which is what this is if i'm not mistaken - it'll also help prevent various hacks for games (well, wallhacks) since what u cant see is not being drawn anymore (that guy on the other side of the level).
I might be wrong, as I'm not very knowledgable on how these hacks work.

Also - what suprises me is that improving culling/masking/hidden surface removal (whatever u want to call it) is not #1 on any driver developers list. It gives your customers (us) free performance at no cost....

Ubergrendle · May 31, 2005, 03:06 PM

Any idea if these suggested improvements will be relevant to a 9700pro? Or will only the current X### generation cards see the benefits?

vulkan · May 31, 2005, 03:09 PM

what about hl2 and source engine performance..

blah..

who plays tomb raider...

thegave · May 31, 2005, 04:47 PM

yeah if the new drivers reduce the load on the system by reducing the amount of textures that need to be drawn then all but the highest systems will see a performance increase. well the highend systems will see an increase as well but honestly when you're over 100fps how much difference does any extra make?

petri1 · May 31, 2005, 04:54 PM

i think that 40-60fps is good beyond that i never been or would notice anyway

but yeah if it means that i can play games like fc d3 hl2 and so on with more "eye candy" on

would be good

coz my specs are hardly high end but pretty close

BWX · May 31, 2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders. I guess that this is an allowed method and Halo might be running even fifteen per cent faster.

It is only the pixels that run through the pixel SHADERS... That means any game that uses pixel shaders will benefit, as far as we know right now.

It seems to me if you have the eye candy on., such as in far cry and in HL2 (DX9 games) you will see a performance. I think if you are not using DX9 rendering mode you won't see a boost. That's what it sounds like anyway.

They didn't say what cards, but it sounds like any DX9 card running a DX9 game (with pixel shaders enabled) will see the benefits..

Quote:

The Chronicles of Riddick will work up to fifteen per cent faster than with the old Catalyst 5.5 drivers and ATI did more efficient storage of vertex data and gained some performance that way too.

Not sure if that is game specific or not. If that s not game specific, then it seems all cards and games should see some improvement.. Vertex data is used in all games.. right?

May 31, 2005, 06:11 AM	#2
Ev!L-aLphA \| n f e c t e D Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: California Posts: 4,111 Rep Power: 0	in even other news brittny spears is pregnant and she has a stupid pointless show on mtv. __________________ R.I.P 8/8/04 4/21/08

May 31, 2005, 06:13 AM	Thread Starter #3
cheese_thief HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 134 Rep Power: 0	So, um, what do you think about the 5.6's? __________________ [color=DimGray]_Specs____________________________________________ Abit A7N8X (nForce2) \| AMD Barton 2800+ \| 1Gb Kingston ValueRAM PC2700 2-2-2-8 \| Radeon 9500 Pro (BBATi), OC'ed to 385/310 thanks to a VGA Silencer rev3 \| Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS \| Sony 24x/10x/40x CD-RW \| Lite-On 16x DVD-ROM \| Microsoft Natural 4000 Keyboard \| Razer Diamondback w/ fUnc 1030 Archetype \| Sennheiser PC160 \| Princeton VF912 19" moniter __________________________________________________[/color]

May 31, 2005, 06:17 AM	#4
MIG-31 HardwareHeaven News Mod Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Nottingham,UK Posts: 56,865 Rep Power: 471 System Specs	With this news from the inq...... we will see! __________________ Please Post Your News Submissions Here

May 31, 2005, 06:40 AM	#7
dsdsdk DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denmark, CPH. Posts: 586 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	"ATI did this by using some Z optimisations, removing unseen pixels before running through the pixel shaders." arent the pixels intended to be there? why not just remove all textures then... then itll run even faster! __________________ No more Kitty!

May 31, 2005, 07:07 AM	#10
PoopyTheJ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588 Rep Power: 66	Can't wait to take those apart __________________ [COLOR=Blue]“Alright boys, let’s start her up and see why she doesn’t work.” - John Fritz "I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds ATI Catalyst Beta Tester[/COLOR]

May 31, 2005, 05:58 AM	#1
cheese_thief HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 134 Rep Power: 0	Good news for Catalyst 5.6 http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23594 The article states that there will be a big speed increase in some games in the 5.6's, some will see up to 20%, and in one case, 50% (LO:MAC) Looking forward to these! In other news, Paris Hilton is getting engaged... __________________ [color=DimGray]_Specs____________________________________________ Abit A7N8X (nForce2) \| AMD Barton 2800+ \| 1Gb Kingston ValueRAM PC2700 2-2-2-8 \| Radeon 9500 Pro (BBATi), OC'ed to 385/310 thanks to a VGA Silencer rev3 \| Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS \| Sony 24x/10x/40x CD-RW \| Lite-On 16x DVD-ROM \| Microsoft Natural 4000 Keyboard \| Razer Diamondback w/ fUnc 1030 Archetype \| Sennheiser PC160 \| Princeton VF912 19" moniter __________________________________________________[/color]

May 31, 2005, 06:21 AM	#5
wolfran DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 414 Rep Power: 0	I think if it's true it will be one heck of a driver. I'm also thinking that the optimisation could be just games specific optimisations because I believe that the ATI drivers these days already have the Z buffer optimisation, unless they improve the optimisation even further. So maybe you'll see great improvements (15-30%) in some games while minor improvements (<5%) on the other games. Nevertheles it's a great improvement if the inquirer is correct. BTW, I'm not against game specific optimisation, actually I'm quite supportive of the idea.

May 31, 2005, 07:45 AM	#12
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	remember the "source", grain of salt and all that.... __________________

May 31, 2005, 10:00 AM	#14
Drakon DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Floatin'... Posts: 4,957 Rep Power: 0	Can anyone help me carry my grain of salt? it's sorta big

May 31, 2005, 10:53 AM	#16
Mort_Cinder I want some ATI lovin' Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: MK, UK Posts: 1,034 Rep Power: 0	there are no references as to how the source engine will benefit (hl2 and cs:s). hopefully we will also see a performance boosts there too

May 31, 2005, 11:03 AM	#17
philou DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	I hope you are right and that the Source engine will benefit those improvements One strange thing is they say 50 % but no example and no reference to this particular improvements I think that the Pixel thing is related to the Hidden Surface thing that permit the GPU to render only the thing we see on screen (but i could be wrong) I remember that ATI was not that good in this particular techniques. The best was Kyro at this... Well we will just have to wait hope it is not --------

May 31, 2005, 11:04 AM	#18
Mr cairo F0rum For Humans Only Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Slightly to the left Posts: 1,780 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	well ill be ever the optamist and say that this is good news __________________ *Please consider Sponsoring my wife for the race for life*

May 31, 2005, 11:25 AM	#21
petri1 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	well guess we will be aware of the improvments in say 2-3Weeks but if that is the case .....can´t wait __________________ [COLOR=#232d35] [COLOR=Red]Intel Core 2 Quad 9450@2,66GHZ PowerColor Ati Radeon HD4870 512mb Gigabyte GaE-X38 4GB Kingston Hyper X [/COLOR] [/COLOR]

May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM	#23
wiskerbizkit DH ***** hobo Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 467 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	From the sound of it they were rendering pixels that you couldnt see anyways. But im not gonna believe the hype yet ive been stung to many times for that

May 31, 2005, 12:33 PM	#24
petri1 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	i must say if ATi had a "speed bump" after 4.12 to 5.5´s then almost anything can happen it would be great to see new 5.6´s 7th of June but if i expect them to come out a week after then i won´t be liek what where are they and instead be supprised if they do come out earlier or something like that __________________ [COLOR=#232d35] [COLOR=Red]Intel Core 2 Quad 9450@2,66GHZ PowerColor Ati Radeon HD4870 512mb Gigabyte GaE-X38 4GB Kingston Hyper X [/COLOR] [/COLOR]

May 31, 2005, 01:57 PM	#25
magicpants DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 24 Rep Power: 0	So with drivers featuring better 'culling', which is what this is if i'm not mistaken - it'll also help prevent various hacks for games (well, wallhacks) since what u cant see is not being drawn anymore (that guy on the other side of the level). I might be wrong, as I'm not very knowledgable on how these hacks work. Also - what suprises me is that improving culling/masking/hidden surface removal (whatever u want to call it) is not #1 on any driver developers list. It gives your customers (us) free performance at no cost....

May 31, 2005, 03:06 PM	#26
Ubergrendle Semper ubi sub ubi Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 702 Rep Power: 51	Any idea if these suggested improvements will be relevant to a 9700pro? Or will only the current X### generation cards see the benefits? __________________ Veteran of the PC Microchannel / EISA wars of the late 1980s.

May 31, 2005, 03:09 PM	#27
vulkan DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	what about hl2 and source engine performance.. blah.. who plays tomb raider...

May 31, 2005, 04:47 PM	#28
thegave -=[DHzer0point Team]=- Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 0	yeah if the new drivers reduce the load on the system by reducing the amount of textures that need to be drawn then all but the highest systems will see a performance increase. well the highend systems will see an increase as well but honestly when you're over 100fps how much difference does any extra make?

May 31, 2005, 04:54 PM	#29
petri1 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	i think that 40-60fps is good beyond that i never been or would notice anyway but yeah if it means that i can play games like fc d3 hl2 and so on with more "eye candy" on would be good coz my specs are hardly high end but pretty close __________________ [COLOR=#232d35] [COLOR=Red]Intel Core 2 Quad 9450@2,66GHZ PowerColor Ati Radeon HD4870 512mb Gigabyte GaE-X38 4GB Kingston Hyper X [/COLOR] [/COLOR]