Begining of the end of Britain ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by FuNsTeR, May 6, 2011.

  1. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    i hope so ... Scottish National Party storm to a landslide victory .. already have a majority in the Scottish assembly ... and the SNP have already announced that their will be a referendum on Independence for Scotland during this parliament ..... 69 SNP and 3 other nationalists out of 129 ... Gallus

    Saor Alba



    bah typo the title should be Britain
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  2. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    If Scotland leaves the union, isn't it going to remain/join the EU anyway?
    Seems like a backwards step to me, but, I am not from Scotland so I don't have a say in that. Good luck whatever you do.
     
  3. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Scotland would be a lot poorer outside of the UK (it's currently subsidised), and would also probably have to become a lot more involved in the EU in order to survive, as well as becoming a British protectorate (like the Isle of Man).

    There'd be big implications for politics in Westminister too, as Scotland accounts for a lot of progressive seats and very few (if any) conservative ones in the houses of parliament.

    At the moment, given the <50% turnout in the devolved government elections in Scotland, it isn't clear what Scottish people want, but I hope that they get it, whatever it is :)
     
  4. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    Scotland has been subsidising the rest of the uk since the 1970s .. 95% of north sea oil is in Scotland's maritime waters 32% of north sea gas lies in Scottish waters ... Scottish Whisky contributes billions to the UK Economy ... and like Scottish oil and gas it is not included in the Scottish GDP but the
    UK GDP instead ... worth over £44 billions per year to the UK Economy ... then their is the refinery jobs 95% of the oil is in our waters but only 20% of the oil is refined in Scotland ... the Scottish parliaments budget is around £30 - £40 billion .... so do the maths .... Scotland has more natural resources than any other country in the EU ... which is a FACT!!


    personally in regard to the EU ... why quit one union to join another union ... lets see Oil, gas, fishing the EU couldn't afford to piss us off without Scotland their fishing policies are f*cked


    look what would you rather have ... a disgruntled partner or a good neighbour ... because i feel the animosity between Scots and English would lesson ... ... look when something goes wrong we blame it on the English ... it is time for Scots to stand up and take responsibilty for our decisions ... yes i am a nationalist ... i don't hate or dislike English ... i love my country ... and i have never had affinity with the UK ... we have our own culture ... for now i would like Scotland as a whole to take stock and see what can be saved ... UK (England) is trying to be a mini America cultural wise ... quite frankly in my opinion it is a cheap and tacky culture
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2011
  5. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    quite frankly i don't see the point of leaving one union to join another union

    actually it is a forward step ... we have a lot in common with the English .... it is what we don't agree that divides us ... we are culturally different from the English and it wouldn't be a backwards step ... the union is holding back England ... whilst we blame (not myself) the English when something goes wrong ... going our separate ways would force some Scots to take responsibility for their decisions/actions

    the English want nuclear power and weapons (currently based in Scotland) and we don't we have the ability to get 100% of our energy from renewable (green) energy sources
     
  6. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    I agree with some of what you've said, but you are wrong about Scotland subsidising the rest of the UK. It used to be the case, but north sea oil is almost entirely depleted, and the whiskey industry is really quite tiny.

    Like I said, though, if the Scottish genuinely want independence, they should have it.
     
  7. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    a geological study was done in the mid 90s off the west coast of Scotland ... the survey reported that the oil and gas reserves of the west coast of Scotland dwarfs the oil and gas reserves on the east coast at it's peak levels ... the only reason it is not being tapped ... is down to the nuclear submarine base in faslane .... they wouldn't be able to operate from faslane if the oil was tapped
     
  8. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Even if that's true, oil won't last forever, and it isn't enough on its own to pay for Scotland to enjoy the governmental budget that it does now.

    This is from the Guardian, and is fairly interesting:

    (source)
     
  9. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    last sentence is real sloppy writing.. wouldnt have suspected that from a newspaper like the Guardian.
     
  10. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    The Guardian's guilty of that kind of thing quite a lot, unfortunately. I don't think most of their stuff is properly proofread.
     
  11. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta New Member

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    british politics i'm in the dark, wait wait..... politics = lies ahhh no you guys will be fine untill there is another war :D ;)
     
  12. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    They have been talking about the fall of Britain since the early 1970's, and the only thing that has changed is the hands in the pot. I wish you guys luck in the fall of your governmental system...:uhoh:
     
  13. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    the break up of the UK is closer now than ever ... their will be a referendum on the union within 3 years ... Snp are playing the clever game ... the start of the end for the UK ... was the setting up of the Scottish parliament in 1999 ... ever since the friction between westminster and holyrood has increased ... i am not going to put blame on anyone of the failures of the UK .... but Scots and English are two seperate cultures with different values ... yes their is lots of common ground with our cousins down south .... but it is our differences that divide us .. we have different priorities
     
  14. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    The trouble with splitting up nations according to culture is that you end up with lots of tiny nations none of which can wield any influence, and all of which become worse off as a result. You can imagine places like Yorkshire, Wales, Cornwall and the Isle of Weight making arguments for independence on cultural grounds, for example.

    What devolution is supposed to achieve is the advantages of independence with the advantages of being part of a major European power.
     
  15. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta New Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure, :) Britain has a strong economy, a stable government , powerful currency, infighting and pulling this way and that is nothing new, the only thing that can lead to the cause of the fall of the U.K is a WAR AND a global catastrophe happening at once, mind you Britain has survived two world wars :), hehehehe I'm not an expert on British politics but if you and The U.S fall there is NO HOPE for "democracy", whatever that is :)
     
  16. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    no hope for democracy?
    there is no hope. all of the government types are bad and none of them work. democracy is just the lesser of evil.

    true democracy were the people decide what happens, is nowhere to be found, and probably wouldn't work.
     
  17. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    I think that you're absolutely right to say that all types of government are bad. Of course democracy doesn't really work - it could only work if the majority of the population knew exactly what was best for the entire population, and had a champion of similar infinite intelligence to vote for. Naturally, this never happens. And if it did, those who voted against said champion would complain.

    However, you're also right to say that democracy is the lesser of many evils. Such worse evils do, in my opinion, include the total lack of government. As such, a world in which democracy - this "lesser of evils" - is as widespread and successful as possible is still, in my opinion, something that we can reasonably and rightly hope for.
     
  18. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta New Member

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    :D:D:D, Nice one, however I think it will Zeitgeist, Resource Based economy seems like an answer to our ills, they have great ideas,
    Ok Basically have you played DeusX 2, in it they advocate s system of government where everyone is connected to a central matrix, and everyones choices preferences and ideals are taken into consideration, there is no governments laws police just a system that consits of all humans in the world who interconnectedly decide what they want, kinda like the internet accept peoples minds are the nodes.

    That would be a true democracy, it will happen we are evolving but we must make an active contribution to it.
     
  19. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta New Member

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    problem with my browser it double posted
     
  20. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    Since we are all saying anything we want in here, the best type of government type is aristocracy, Plato's aristocracy. That is indeed impossible to happen.

    Democracy on the other hand, even of the direct type, existed in the past and it is possible to exist in the future with the right technology. The problem is that not all agree to one form of government and that even people who do, tend to some times forget the common good.

    That's why Capitalism, the real one, is the best system, though once again, not in effect today, yet.

    All of them though are irrelevant to the topic of this thread. I find discussions about "ending" the union as funny, when at the same time the same people want more integration into the EU. But that is just me.
     

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