Begining of the end of Britain ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by FuNsTeR, May 6, 2011.

  1. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Pure capitalism has more than its fair share of problems. It discourages innovation, for example - there is no patenting or copyright under a pure capitalist system, for such measures are both market failures that create monopolies.

    I guess it can be argued that pretty much any system of government works well if perfectly executed, though.
     
  2. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    I don't know where you get those problems for, discouraging innovation? That's bs. To the contrary.

    A system working well doesn't mean it is a good system, so I do not agree that all systems are potentially good.
     
  3. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Well under a pure capitalist system (which has never been implemented) the only incentives to work (or do anything else) are money and the utility that money can bring, and there is no governmental or altruistic intervention. So, if you develop a new product or idea, your competitors will copy it very quickly and it won't make you any more money than continuing to build the old product. In fact, it'll cost you development costs that your rivals won't have to bear, giving you a competitive disadvantage.

    Under a mixed capitalist system the government grants temporary monopolies to encourage innovation (copyright, patents). Under a pure capitalist system these would be considered unaccapetable market failures.

    Under a socialist or altruistic system you innovate for the good of your country or fellow man - something which regrettably , in the real world, tends to mean a relatively small amount of innovation.

    I didn't say that all systems are potentially good. I said that it can be argued that most systems will work well if perfectly executed. Nothing about the systems being "good" (presumably meaning fair, just, efficient) in there.

    __________________

    EDIT: This thread has gone:

    1. British devolution
    2. Britain as a bastion of democracy
    3. Hope for democracy or lack thereof
    4. The merits and problems of democracy
    5. Capitalism
    I hope that the last jump doesn't mean that we're assuming capitalism and democracy to be the same thing, or to be necessary partners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  4. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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  5. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Ok, so you're not going to read or reply to this, but for the sake of anyone that's interested, the difference between our viewpoints on the issue is probably summed up by one of the first sentences of the site linked:

    I'd also warn for anyone that is interested that that site makes some pretty outrageous claims. Furthermore, their conception of capitalism in the "broader philosophical political sense" also includes a "limited democracy", which is not necessarily something included in every political scientist's conception.
     
  6. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Lol...can't let the Scots run the government, or everyone will be drunk all day; can't let the brits run the government, or they'll be sipping tea and wearing dresses faster than you can say "Bloody 'Ell"! :)

    Maybe the division is what needs to change. A politically-united UK, as well as a morally-united UK, will survive the transition.
     
  7. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo Require backup .... NO

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    Scots are Brits
     
  8. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    i like to think otherwise :cool:
     
  9. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood HH's curmudgeon

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    Wait!

    Didn't we do this already?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo Require backup .... NO

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    :)
     
  11. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    Scots stopped painting their faces in combat after 862 AD after the Scoti (Dál Riata) and Picts (The Painted) united to defeat the Northumbrians which resulted in the Kingdom of Alba (pronounced Ala-pa) otherwise known as Scotland
     
  12. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    The Referendum is to be held in the autumn of 2014, which the westminster politicians are trying to interfere in ... they have forgotten one major point they have mandate to interfere in Scottish politics we have more pandas than we have tory MPs, the Snp won a landslide victory on the back of holding a referendum on the union on the 2nd half of their parliamentry term, no rantings from Herr Cameron on co will change that, they knew this in advance ... the more westminster gets involved the greater the chance of victory for Nationalists like me :)
     
  13. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    I don't know if Scotland on its own would be better for the people there, but if this is what the people vote for, that's their decision. What I can say though is that it's better not to bet in one horse only. (oil rigs)
     
  14. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    Scotland our industry is very diversed, Scotland has more natural resources than any other country in the EU for example without Scotland the EU fisherys would be completely f*cked, where do you think the french get their lobsters and langostines from and other shell fish :cool: the EU needs us more than we need them our oil and gas reserves off the west Coast of Scotland dwarfs the oil and gas reserves from the north sea at their peak we do not need nuclear power as we can generate our energy from 100% renewables
     
  15. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    All I say is careful what you wish for, you might get it.

    Good luck either way.
     
  16. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    the silver/gold and other valuables that are very abundant in Scotland and heavily exported, is probably by itself more than enough to more than sustain themselves alone.
     
  17. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Not at their current levels of prosperity.

    Natural resources alone a great nation do not make.

    That said, if the Scots really want independence, they should have it. I'd wish them the best of luck and grimace as the rest of the UK knuckles down for a generation of Tory dominated politics. I just hope that the referendum sees a decent turnout and well-informed voting (unlike the ill-fated AV referendum).
     
  18. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Overall resources and REAL wealth do make for a much easier transition and a good future prospect though.

    If the governing body is corrupt or criminals in general.. obviously it wouldn't matter what was available.. it'd be stolen.

    But either way, Scotland has a very VERY wide area of expertise and resources available and made/kept within the country itself. It can easily sustain itself. Even with the inventors and genius that is present there.

    Just like western Canada could quite easily devide itself away from eastern Canada .. (slice it down the Ontario Manitoba border)... which would quite likely leave eastern Canada is a struggling situation and western Canada totally booming.
     
  19. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    that is why we do not want westminster interfering in our politics everything tories/labour touch turns to sh!te ... it is not just about wealth a large part is to do with our national identity and our culture ..

    don't get me wrong England is a great country i personally feel the union is holding back England and the English, it is not a crime to be proud to be English or Scottish i would rather we were good nieghbours instead of disgruntled partners in a failing marriage, as i have said earlier in the thread England has a rich culture in the arts, music etc and you need to replace GSTQ with something like England's green and pleasant land or land of hope and glory .... GSTQ is a dirge much the same as FoS is for us in Scotland
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  20. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    what is really starting to annoy me is the political mud slinging from the no camp David Cameron said he wanted the contest to be a positive debate so that the people of Scotland can decide on their future ... the debate should be about the pro cons of staying in the union or leaving the union so that people can decided on the basis of the issues that matter most to them ... scaremongering will have a negative effect on the referendum outcome just like negative campaigning had a massive effect on the 2011 Scottish assembly election which Snp won on a landslide. personally i would prefer a positive campaign from both sides .... the people of Scotland deserve no less and continuing with the negatives can only damage future relations between the rest of the UK .... which no one really wants
     

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