Beyond 7.1 surround sound into the 10.2

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Judas, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    I've recently had the pleasure of playing with some new amps and whatnot.

    dealing with some rather unofficial but working solutions.

    Unfortuneatly there is still a lack of even BLU-RAY dvds that provide anything more then 5.1.... if theres one out there that's a movie, i've yet to find one that is 6.1 or 7.1 for that matter.

    First off, it's not true 10.2... 2nd, there is a considerable number of ways of setting up such a system (in terms of placement).... 3rd, there are actually 11.2 amplifiers available which i've also got to play with. Course when dealin with anything that highend, you talking $5000 or more at the LEAST.

    The amplifiers use matrixing.. but unlike the matrixing you hear with 5.1 units that try and upmix/resample a stereo feed.... essentially the 10.2 systems (or anything above 5.1 actually) caculates the audio presented between the seperated channels to fill in the gaps. For lack of being able to better explain this, all i can say is the audio is very well manipulated to fill those gaps without just "reproducing the same audio more then once"


    Currently i've my small room setup like this:

    [​IMG]

    Not dealing with large speakers considering the rediculious small size of my room, the placement gets really difficult when dealing with subwoofers... without comprimising audio quality as well as the fuction of the room itself.

    I've been playing around with the placements quite a bit, not really careing about the holes i'm putting in my walls... but the image above so far is the green light for me.

    Technically speaking, it's closer to that of 9.2 due to there being 2 center channels in the front. As i said, there is a number of different ways manufacturers are presenting anything above 7.1...

    So far my thoughts are, i'm rather enjoying this, as the clarity at even low volumes is great and the direction the sound moves is very impressive. I do indeed find the 2nd sub does make a difference presenting what "feels" like motion moving from say right to left or rear to front or however... each sub producing very different frequencies of audio/vibrations.

    Still going to be playing with it though.

    My favorite amp for playing with this kind of stuff so far is the yamaha RX-Z11 Amplifier (11.2) A relatively powerful amp, 100watts for each channel except for the last 4 being 50watts...... still sounds amazing...
     
  2. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    interesting... apparently only 77 movies thus far that are available with 7.1 support...

    found a forum thread that mentioned this site...

    Blu-ray Disc Statistics

    and of course i don't have a single one of those movies listed...


    Correction, i've got chronicles of narnia 2 prince caspian, it does indeed recognize as DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 averaging about 3000-6000KBPS
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  3. ChaosMinionX

    ChaosMinionX USB 3 dot oh

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    Why 10.2? Because its twice as nice as 5.1 :)
     
  4. mike2h

    mike2h New Member

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    silly shit judas. first 5000 for a 2 channel power amp is barely considered 'high end' & if u r going to post info like this & pretend u actually know someting about highend or even mid fi sound get your terms straight. please. bty that RECEIVER is rated at 140w per channel X7. u got the 50w x4 rt.
    your lack of knowledge in this area is staggering judas, i have no doubt u r enjoying yourself & that is cool but if you actually had that RECEIVER you would know that you do a basic one time setup of your speakers(obviously u pick appropriate locations) - & as important as they are got to wonder y u havent said what u r using as speakers- & then use the amp to calibrate the seperate seating positions, sound levels, crossover points(if needed), time delay,peq, & room eq. no need for 'putting holes in the walls'. u can fine tune it after the RECEIVER does it thing but constantly moving thing around is the las thing u want to do. unlees you were clueless on intial speaker/sub placement.
    your 'story' aside, 10.1 is a gimmick(actually been around in several different forms for several years). nothing more. there are true highend setups that do a good job of matrixing 5.1/7.1 into 10.1 but you pay out the nose for it iof u want anything approaching good sound quality.
    while i am not familiar wit that model specifically' i would be willing t obe that your speaker setup isnt close to their rec one. especially for a small room(or any room for that matter). unlees you are using transducers that are really small they got to be almost on top of each other wich means u are losing any point souce and at the same time loosinng the whole point of the 4 extra 'ambience' channels.
    the bottom line is that if u spent the same or even less on setting up a good 7.1 or even 5.1(as there really isnt much in the way of true discrete 7 channel audio available) you will get a much better, more realistic sound.
    bty wha tr u using for subs... bty sub output is mono, meaning the signal going to bothe subs is exactly the same.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  5. ChaosMinionX

    ChaosMinionX USB 3 dot oh

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    Not to discredit what you have said, but could you clean that mess up a little bit?

    Its one thing to tell someone otherwise about what they had posted, but to do it with a complete disregard for proper grammar and structure does not do your knowledge justice.
     
    CDsDontBurn and Cow_160483 like this.
  6. mike2h

    mike2h New Member

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    dont know what to tell you, dont really care. gonna fall on deaf ears.
    i probably wouldnt read it either lol.
     
  7. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    Now now dont fight boys ;)
     
  8. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    that will be the phasing errors caused by having two LFEs in a small space

    as the lower frequencies are NOT directional (we tell the direction from the higher harmonics) there's no point having more than one, unless you're trying to fill a space - but as you state your room is "rediculously small" then having two LFEs is doing more harm than good

    as for 10 satellites... the dual centre speakers are again probably going to affect the phase of each other, your best off having just one, and depending on the matrixing abilities of your receiver, your positioning is going to be messed up compared to 5.1/7.1, especially at the rear of your setup

    surround positioning is traditionally more psycho-acoustic than you may think, for example, Sony's SDDS standard has a 6.1 setup, five full-range speakers for the front (R, RC, C, LC, L) and a single rear, yet the positioning of sounds is quite accurate - a sound predominantly in the rear will be louder from the rear speaker, but if it's panned to the left, will also sound (though at a lower level) in the front left speakers, making the listener believe the sound is coming from the rear left. The picture from the movie also plays a big part in where in the surround-scape our mind perceives the sound to come from


    EDIT: as for the "LACK" of content higher than 5.1, I think, with the explanations above, that I've explained how there's no real need for anything more than traditional 5.1 for a consumer level system, or even a movie theatre.
     
  9. GutterPunk

    GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood

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    Umm whats the point of 10.2 in a small room?

    You can go with a 5.1 or 7.1 system from places like SVS for a fraction of the cost and be way better off! Especially with the subwoofer. How big is the room? The sound reproduction with a quality receiver, and speakers will do the job for a smaller room. I finally got to see a 7.2 setup with SVS sound and it topped any theatre, along with any home theatre I have ever heard! 10.2 is just overkill.

    There are simpler, cheaper solutions that will give better results imo.
     
  10. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    as i stated... i'm playing with with...

    1st:

    the speakers i'm using are Sound Acoustics, rated 150watts maximum. I don't have the specific model.. but they are very impressive speakers. Although they are the little brother to the larger shelf speaker that i like much better, but with a sub are more then good enough. Expensive little buggers for there size though.

    MySoundAcoustics.com - Premium Residential and Commercial Audio / Video Products

    2nd:

    One time setup is fine and dandy for you, but considering the layout of the room, i figured i'd redesign things a bit, there are many different suggestions and setup diagrams on the internet for anything above 7.1. I'm playing... did i not state this?

    3rd: Considering home electronics and amplifiers, it's are for anyone to walk in and buy JUST AN AMP that is above 500-1000 bucks, quite often most people are purchasing the all in one solution for 1500 (or even 500 or less) bucks that sounds/performs worse then some of the cheap computer speakers from logitech.

    So i'm pretty damn confident that walking up to anyone anywhere, even some of the more "music/sound/Movie" enthusiast and then asking if 2000 or even 5000 bucks for JUST an amplifier is considered highend... they'd say yup.

    I'm fully aware of the cost of "true" Audiophile highend, although quite a number of selfproclaimed audiophiles consider the yamaha system pretty highup there. Guess that's just difference of opinion which is just fine.

    Considering the cost of about 120,000 dollar Stereo system, i know what highend sounds like and what it's designed for. I'm not trying to fill a community hall, even if the clarity at any distance is astounding. It's overkill by the best margins if i were to talk about putting something like that in my small room. (frankly i wouldn't have the place for it)

    4th:

    According to what i've read, the LFE channels are actually managed, the left side and right sides are split and figured. The reason i feel things differently is due to the applifier apparently doing the job of presenting a shift of LFE from one side to the other depending on where it's located. Obviously there is a good chance if not guarantee i may be getting "phasing errors"... but it all sounds very good and right. Turning one sub off emediately feels like something is missing.

    5th: lastly, the System when setup automatically runs audio tuning (yamaha amp) which automatically adjust the necessary volumes and delays and so forth, i just need to trigger that everytime i move the speakers around.

    As i said, i'm playing with it, i've had a "few" people over to enjoy it, and playing back a 7.1 Blu-Ray does sound superior and is emediately apparent vs 5.1

    Didn't mean to get anyones panties in a bunch.

    edit: sorry.... yes 140watt..... not 100 per channel excluding the 50watt 4x channels in the rear... my "typo" mistake....
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  11. GutterPunk

    GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood

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    I guess... Overkill yes... but fun Hells freakin yeah. Isn't that what nerdery is about?!
     
  12. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    lol...

    theres no way i can personally afford this setup...

    i only get to occasionally play with some hardware...... either due to having a buyer and making sure things are working properly out of the box before pickup (saves them a trip if it arrives DOA or inproperly working)... or via other means.

    probably a few days it'll all be stripped down... but i think with a few correct adapters and whatnot.. i could jerry rig 2 5.1's together well enough.

    Play some more.
     
  13. SFOSOK

    SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong

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    not diggin this

    I don't care if I can hear 7 different helicopters individually.
     

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