MSI GeForce 210 not post in Sapphire A9RX480 mobo?!

Discussion in 'NVIDIA Graphics Cards' started by caps_buster, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    This is a bit nuts. The MSI card is GeForce 210-MD512H:
    http://www.msi.com/product/vga/N210-MD512H.html#?div=Specification
    ...witch is basicaly fanless budget MSI GeForce 210 with 589/1024MHz clocks and 512MB DDR2 ram. All in all a budget card to do the work required and that it is.

    However I wanted to use it in my Sapphire "Grouper" A9RX480 mobo (that is ATI chipset RX480-450 for SB) and it refuse to post. When I plug there my old good PNY GeForce 7800, then (even w/o the external power cable connected - DOS only, true) everything seems working out nicely!

    Now that is a bit insane. Any suggested bios settings to make the card work?

    Yes, it is claimed to be 16x PCIEx speed... shall I try 8x? Okay, tried 8x, no difference

    Some settings are really interesting - how about these?

    LTD Configuration - Enabled
    Upstream LTD Bus Width - 16bit
    Downstream LTD Bus Width - 16bit
    LTD Bus Frequency - Auto (1GHz, 800MHz, 600MHz, 400MHz, 200MHz)

    (I know, this have more to do with the CPU memory controler that GFX card, but who knows?)

    PCIE GFX Core Payload Size - 64Bytes (32Bytes, 16Bytes)
    PCIE GPP Core Payload Size - 64Bytes (32Bytes, 16Bytes)
    NB-SB Port Configuration - Default (Enhanced)
    PCI-E GFX Link Width - x16 (x12, x8, x4, x2, x1)
    Assign IRQ For VGA - Enabled (Disabled)

    ...any suggestions?


    MSI seems inclined to claim that this is just a "compatibility issue." They are probably right about it. Is there any bios fix for this card, or I'm completely helpless in making it work in my Sapphire A9RX480 mobo?

    BTW, where MKV tech net guys go? There are some talk about VGA bios mods, perhaps they can help me out with this...? Anyone know?
     
  2. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    no setting changes should be necessary.... the only settings that used to significantly effect video cards in any manner were AGP cards. PCI-EX cards generally should work out of the box unless you do some hefty overclocking which could mess up with bus speeds.

    The only capability problems I know of were in regard to using newer PCI-EX 2.0 cards in 1.1 machines resulting in a VGA not found beep code or simply lack of display at all, recent example is all HD5xxx and NVidia 4xx series cards in an Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe board.

    The 210 isn't really any where near a specialized card. HOWEVER it could also be effected by the same or similar thing.

    When I first ran into the problem neither had a solution and dealing with the older boards, being discontinued products, ended up just having to find/use an older compatible card, no solution was viable.

    You can see if modded bioses or whatnot would work, but keep in mind, you may end up just killing either product attempting to force them to work together.

    the 7800 card however is imo a better card anyways. Although yes more than you might need.
     
  3. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    It is a good question, what version of the PCIE slots the A9RX480 have. Sapphire webpage did not say a thing: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/downloads/?pid=264&psn=0006&lid=1&os=7

    Using PNY 7800 is, however, impossible. Lack of watercooling to witch the card is moded to be used... So I need a just something like the GF210... passive, small, yet capable of playing less demanding games still.

    The MSI GeForce 210-MD512H is, w/o a question, PCIE 2.0 card for sure:
    http://www.msi.com/product/vga/N210-MD512H.html#?div=Specification
     
  4. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    xpress 200 is far as I know 1.1 or 1.0a compliant only..

    and yes.. 2.0 or higher cards "should" work find in the slot specially for low power such as the 210..

    you might be out of luck though short of picking up a cheap HD4xxx card or a NVidia 9xxx card or older..
     
  5. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    Indeed you are right. Independently I realized, where the problem is. Since the mainboard Sapphire A9RX480 PCIE slots are version 1.0a, then any graphic card have to be backwards compatible with PCIE 1.0a in order to work. Since there is, in the MSI GeForce 210-MD512H, mentioned only support for PCIE v2.0, then it probably means that it will never work on PCIE v1.0a and hence I need a gfx card, that is backward compatible with PCIE v1.0a...
    And this card is not it.

    So, unless there could be done a bios tweak, that allow this backward compatibility, there is no way to make the card work in Sapphire A9RX480. Damn!

    Some graphic card that is small yet effective and will work is wanted :) Now I did not trust much any PCIE cards to work, till I try them in reality :(
     
  6. The_Neon_Cowboy

    The_Neon_Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm late to the party here but still here is my my two bits.

    If the bios is unto date do you know for sure the card is working? PCIe 2.0
    cars are "generally" backwards compatible... to quote MSI's product page
    for the card "PCI Express 2.0 products are fully backwards compatible
    with existing PCI Express motherboards for broadest support"


    Assuming power requirements are met should have at least 300W psu.

    It can be a compatibility issue its often solved with a bios update:
    http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/downloads/?pid=264&psn=0006&lid=1&os=6
    But with support for the board being dead hasn't been an update for
    a long time. Maybe out of luck. I have put a much newer low end card in my
    dads pc and it has the same xpress 200 chipset. But, it's an low end Ati card 5000/6000
    series can't rember the exact card got it on one of those Free after rebate deals.

    Then again some times a particular card or chipset just won't work with each other.:sigh:
     
  7. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    Better late that never? :) I was also under the impression about backwards compatibility. Even MSI at one point told me that, but then they quickly back and apologized for wrong informations.
    Now they claim that the MSI GeForce 210 is _NOT_ backwards compatible for PCIE 1.0a.

    Power requirments are fine, Enermax 620W PSU can do it.

    As far as bios goes, there is no later bios that from 17.4.2006 from Sapphire. So to making this exact card works is very likely impossible in Sapphire A9RX480 mobo.

    However I got borrowed today for test a Point of View GeForce 7300GT card and it run in Sapphire A9RX480 w/o a single glitch (I recapped the card with Samxon caps like 4 years ago for friend, because the card died). So I would say that the board run pretty good, unless someone is trying to use in it the PCIE v2.0 card that is _NOT_ backwards compatible with PCIE 1.0a.

    Witch is the case of the MSI GeForce 210-MD512H, unfortunately for me.
     
  8. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    yeah thought so
     
  9. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    Only one thing worry me, and that is that the 7300GT TDP is 24W, yet the passive heatsink of the card is getting pretty damn hot when running "just on my desk" and just 2D display (Unbuntu live boot CD linux, Winblows...) ...

    That makes me a bit uneasy as to how hot a 7600GT with TDP 40W can become... or a 8600GS with TDP 47W...

    And I thought that these cards I can run with bigger passive heatsinks on them... Now I'm not quite sure. But I'm quite sure that they will work just fine.

    Only problems I ATM enconter are ram problems. Forgeting that the Mushkin Enhanced rams with the WinBond BH-6 chips require a "bit" more voltage that the 2.60V the mobo and their SPD choosen for them. Prime 95 in 3 min cause either BSOD or error. 2.70V to the damn ram and all pass with flying colors :)

    (bottom line, the upper voltage in this crazy mobo is 4.40V for rams and I'm not kidding - however that voltage will probably kill the memorycontroler, as when the difference of voltages reach over 2V between core (1.40V) and VDIMM voltage (4.40V) then the CPU (Opteron 148) give up and die... I know that, because by accident I set once 2.00 or such Vcore voltage to my Opteron and OFF it go for RMA... died right away, even with watercooling it just posted and that it is...)


    PS. now it looks like this:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    ...testing phase...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  10. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    I find with different cases and circumstances.... I find large heatsink based cards are good under well ventilated cases.... but otherwise in htpc..... not such a great idea if they are spitting out large amounts of heat..... a single fat helps considerably... specially if you get a slot fan that direct directly off the card..... but hopefully something very low rpm.
     
  11. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    True indeed. The huge heatsink did not help dissipiate 24W of TDP at all... A fan in necessary. Well, not my card, a friend one... But I got another old card from friend. And also Point of View GeForce 8600GT is working just fine in Sapphire A9RX480 mobo:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    ...so it is a rather isolated case of the MSI GeForce 210 card, seems. I do wonder, if other manufactures GeForce 210 cards will have this problem, tough. We will never know, I assume, unless I get my hands on any of these cards.

    Now I using a Point of View 8600GT card:

    [​IMG]

    ...it have reasonably quiet fan, but of course far too noisy for my liking. So I looked out for something that will fit well the reasonably small card, preferably overlaping ith 92mm fan over the top, so it cool a bit the NB heatsink after the card...

    But much to my surprise, something like Arctic Cooling Accelero S2 are too big. The heatsink is huge, a 188x140mm (or 182x137 if you take their words: http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/discontinued-products/72/accelero-s2.html#techdata ) monster for a 120mm fan... That is a bit overkill for the small and reasonably not too hot (TDP 40W, or so they say http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/198/geforce-8600-gt.html ) card.

    So, are there something like the Accelero S2, but smaller... for a like 92mm fan out there?

    I managed to find a Accelero L2 with reasonable 119x94 size, however the bottom does NOT look like that it can fit on my card AND there did not seems to be any suitable connections awailable, besides the GPU is at anged position on this card...
    http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/discontinued-products/vga/23/accelero-l2-pro.html?c=2264

    But at least it is smaller, yet it is unclear, if there is enought space for the caps that have to fit bello the heatsink. At least 14mm there must be, preferably 15 as the Accelero L2 have... :|

    So I'm a bit stuck. Of course there are alternatives like Zalman VF1000, but this is again overkill AND also the heatsink did not feature big enought fan to cool the chipset too AND I want to be able to use quiet fan (preferably Noctua... or shall I get something even quietier there from the 92mm pool?) of my choice and not their fan...
     
  12. caps_buster

    caps_buster Just one crazy geek :)

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    Since moderator uddarts on PC perspective forum have the same Sapphire A9RX480 mainboard and he tried a Galaxy GTX 650 in it. This is a PCIE v3.0 (!) card from 2013.

    And quess what! It worked right away w/o troubles! Now that means that the mobo is NOT the problem, but MSI ficked up the backwards compatibility in the card bios and that prevent it being used at all in older mainboards. Terrible...
     

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