OpenAL?!

Discussion in '3-D Audio' started by DocterDee, Aug 3, 2003.

  1. DocterDee

    DocterDee New Member

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    Has anyone tested the OpenAL Wrapper from Creative with the ne kX Drivers?
     
  2. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    why do you think you need OpenAL? currently, it has no advantages compared to DirectSound 3D
    (at least, for PCs)

    /E
     
  3. synic0

    synic0 New Member

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    The advantage is that it is a cross-platform API, obviously. DirectX is completely stuck in the hands of Microsoft, and you cannot create an easily portable product using it. One particular product that has used OpenAL is UT2K3.

    Personally I think that OpenAL is a great way to go because it is vendor neutral and you can do acceleration of occlusion, etc without using EAX, A3D, or DirectSound3D and being beholden to a particular company's whims.

    If it weren't for open standards, we wouldn't have the Internet afterall... (no TCP/IP)
     
  4. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    >> cross-platform API, obviously

    you need this advantage? what for? are you are software programmer? a game developer?..
    why then?

    OpenAL is very similar to DirectSound 3D (there are no substantial differences between these APIs)

    >> it is vendor neutral

    do you know who's the author of OpenAL? :)
    do you know any implementation of OpenAL engine, except by Creative Labs for their Live-for-Mac card?..
    (well, there's a linux version... abandoned long time ago)

    >> being beholden to a particular company's whims

    just open www.openal.org to check what company you will belong to
    also, browse the sources and check their dates...

    ----

    cross-platform assumes any other platforms... currently, there's no good openAl implementation for any non-Windows OS. moreover, Windows version is just a sub-layer which translates the calls to DirectSound 3D
    everyone can download the openal32.dll from Creative which performs such translation and adds OpenAL support for any DirectSound 3-D aware card

    /Eugene
     
  5. Soeren_B

    Soeren_B kX Project DSP Engineer

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    Yeah! Despite that its name reminds very much about openGL which indeed is a powerfull cross platform API I fail to see why one should care about openAL ATM.

    I seems only as a weak attempt to make something else than DirectSound3D, but as there is little or close to no development or support for other platforms than Windows it will not succeed (IMO). (Though I will admit that it will make programming somewhat easier if the API is as easy to use as openGL compared to DirectX3D :mad: :duh: )

    Cheers
    Soeren
     
  6. synic0

    synic0 New Member

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    Yes, I am a both a software developer AND a game developer, so I find the qualities of free and open attractive. The fact that both NVidia and Creative have both made SDK's for it seemed to suggest that it was an open standard, but please correct me if I have been bamboozled.

    The point of the matter is that Linux didn't have a free and opensource OpenGL implementation worth a sneeze until about five years ago (Mesa project) and that wasn't even hardware accelerated on a majority of cards because of lack of driver support from the hardware companies. Eventually this situation changed as open-source, reverse-engineered drivers matured and some companies got a clue and released drivers for their products (philosophical differences aside). Similarly, OpenAL I think could be in a similar situation. Companies are thinking, "why should i support this standard," and programmers aren't currently making a free (as in speech) implementation for non-Windows OS's (although this could change in the future with drumming up a project on source-forge and getting a few competent lead programmers). The thing is, the possibility exists and I would think it's a far more worthy cause than wasting time and effort on DirectSound 3D. I mean, if hardware developers are all still busy making their own vendor API's (like EAX 3.0, etc) then why is DSound3D so hot anyway? Does it not support extensions, ala OpenGL ?

    Anyway, just my two cents... You guys have likely been paying attention to this stuff longer than I have, but I just had (mis?)understood that OpenAL was actually a committee arbitrated API like OpenGL and could offer things that Microsoft only API's could not (like viability on any non-MS platform)... if this is not the case, please tell me so...

    Oh, and your last comment,... there is a Macintosh OS implementation, so is that no good? MacOS is definitely non-MS...
     
  7. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    >> The fact that both NVidia and Creative have both made SDK's for it seemed to suggest that it was an open standard

    both DirectSound 3D and OpenAL are 'open' standards (their SDKs and specification are available) -- compare it to EAX3.0 (which is 'closed' standard -- you cannot use it without an NDA -- but you can use EAX2/EAX1)
    the OpenAL is cross-platform, while DirectSound 3D isn't -- that's the only difference

    btw, you won't find any source code for OpenAL implementation except rather simple one for Linux...
    Creative / NVidia have never released their 'native' source code, just software emulations (which lack a lot of features) or the versions that represent simple DirectSound3D wrappers

    >> I mean, if hardware developers are all still busy making their own vendor API's (like EAX 3.0, etc) then why is DSound3D
    >> so hot anyway

    you are mistaken. EAX is not a 3-D API, it is a 'Environmental extension'
    that is, it doesn't deal with 3-D Audio (positioning, listener-source attenuation, doppler etc..) -- it simply adds special effects such as reverb
    there's even a special layer for using EAX stuff under OpenAL! (that is, you can use EAX both under DirectSound3D and OpenAL!)

    there are TWO main 3-D Audio APIs - DirectSound3D and OpenAL (well, there was Aureal A3D some time ago...), and there are a lot of third-party extensions (such as EAX1,2,3)

    why people deal with DirectSound3D? Simply because you cannot easily implement support for any other API while using WDM (Windows Driver Model) which is native for Windows :)
    that is, if you deal with windows audio, it is much -easier- to implement DirectSound / DirectSound 3D than support any non-standard (!) OpenAL-like API [including Aureal A3D etc..]

    there are currently only 4 commercial titles using openAL (according to creative site...)
    perhaps, things will change in the future -- but at the moment I see no reason adding -native- support for OpenAL ... even more: I think that for Windows platform there should be NO native OpenAL drivers, because 'native' is DirectSound3D. if people are interested in OpenAL -- they can easily download DirectSound3D<->OpenAL wrapper... :)

    /Eugene

    p.s.

    >> OpenAL was actually a committee arbitrated API

    not exactly. open www.openal.org and review it
    the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative :)

    >> there is a Macintosh OS implementation

    made by... Creative
    made for... Macintosh Live! [ONLY!]

    P.P.s.

    the present OpenAL standard isn't perfect -- just try to install both implementations from NVidia & Creative -- and you'll see what I mean. I'm afraid there will be no 'green sign' for OpenAL until we see competing audio-hardware manufacturers..
    at the moment, it is only a game played by Creative to promote their audio hardware...
     
  8. inteks

    inteks New Member

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    >>the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative

    the only company currenty makes useable 3dSoundHardware is Creative :D ;) :lol: :) :cool:
     
  9. pzmt

    pzmt New Member

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    OpenAL specification was developed by Loky Games (www.lokigames.com). Company tryed sell linux games ( linux ports of windows games). Company bacrupt and OpenAL was buyed by Creative. First version of OpenAL was on Linux.

    pz
     
  10. inteks

    inteks New Member

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    and the only currently useable asio AND 3dsound driver is KXProject :D :w00t: :drool: :x
     
  11. inteks

    inteks New Member

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    and hopefully the first asio AND 3dsound AND openAL driver is KXProject , too :) :) :) :)
     
  12. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

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    Time to recheck things...

    Eugene, have you visited www.openal.org recently? Check the front page at least.
     
  13. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    >> Check the front page at least

    :)
    it is now only =one= page dedicated to openal (the 'front' one)
    and Loki is no more...

    well...

    and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl

    hmm... probably, I could re-download and review this 'anonymously' donated MacOS code (if it is available, of course)

    actually, no 'real' news -- every OpenAL Fan can download the CL openAl installer -- and get OpenAL support (based on DirectSound)

    /Eugene
     
  14. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

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    # and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl

    And some of them are quite popular like America's Army, and Jedi Knight games.

    Maybe they are still not worth the effort but no harm in checking out.
     
  15. pep

    pep New Member

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    Yaaa America's Army ROX. But stereo sound kills me... OAL does not work for me :sigh:.
     
  16. inteks

    inteks New Member

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    but that are really great games !!!!!
     
  17. cocabubu

    cocabubu New Member

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    Hi!!Please help me!
    One week ago i bought Audigy 4 pro end stupid dealers lost my driver
    cd.My problem is
    very big because i did install beta version end doesn't work very
    well...neither remote
    control nor media center.I wish u show me one link from i could take
    all
    the necessary
    application about this product!
    Creative support notice me that there is not update...At the moment i
    can't uset.
    Thank very much and i hope to help me verry soon!!!
     
  18. imperia

    imperia Active Member

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    it seems that id software is supporting openal.
     
  19. RejZoR

    RejZoR New Member

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    Well ancient Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 is one of them too. All Unreal Tournaments after UT99 also support OpenAL (UT2003/2004) and upcoming UT2007.
     
  20. PIRATA!

    PIRATA! New Member

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    Well?? Will kXproject drivers soon suppoer OpenAL??? I really neeeed that for playing my favourites games!!! :D


    P.S.: Is it possible to active the 24bit/96kHz in the kXproject drivers?? If so... how?? :)


    Thank you.
     

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