soundblaster --> AC3 over ONE s/p-dif?

Discussion in '3-D Audio' started by DJ_ViRuS, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. DJ_ViRuS

    DJ_ViRuS New Member

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    hi, i was really surprised of the features of kx.... i wanted to put another really bad soundcard (terratec 128i) in my computer to get 2 independent outputs, with kx it works with the SB live 5.1 (i had problems with win2k)... so i tried a lot of things and my question is, if i can get a 5.1 ac3-stream out of the card with one s/p-dif output.... i've a big sony amp. with digital inputs, but it always says only "2ch PCM" ... :-((

    can somebody help me please?


    sorry for my bad englich, i'm a 16 years old dj from germany...



    don't forget, stay tuned, techno rulez and TarmCenter is the place to live :pPPP


    thanks
     
  2. Nappylady

    Nappylady New Member

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    This is, alas, impossible. SPDIF is, by design, only a 2-channel format. In order to use 6, you must either use 6 analog channels or a TOSLINK channel, and the Soundblaster Live! has no TOSLINK port.

    Sorry, man. Good luck to you anyway.
     
  3. DJ_ViRuS

    DJ_ViRuS New Member

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    noo...

    that's wrong... toslink is something like a "cable"-format..... toslik (optical) is also s/p-dif...

    so..

    you can put a 6 or 8 ch. format over a coaxial cable
     
  4. Daniel Drummond

    Daniel Drummond New Member

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    Yes, that's wrong. SPDIF and OPTICAL can carry exact the same things. For instance I send 7 channel audio (6.1 system) from my DVD player to my receiver through a SPDIF cable (coaxial).
     
  5. DJ_ViRuS

    DJ_ViRuS New Member

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    that's what i mean :)
     
  6. Nappylady

    Nappylady New Member

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    Wha?

    There are two optical formats that go over the same lightpipe cables; TOSLINK and SPDIF. TOSLINK is exclusive to optical, SPDIF can be sent over coaxial cable or over optical cable. SPDIF is an exclusively 2-channel format. (see http://concert.towson.edu/doc/CH/CH.doc.timing.clocks.htm)

    If you're sending 8 channels of audio through a coaxial cable, that's some trick. Do not confuse SPDIF and TOSLINK just because they can both be sent over optical cable, they are VERY DIFFERENT.
     
  7. Daniel Drummond

    Daniel Drummond New Member

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    Man, you are just wrong... And there is no trick at all. SPDIF cannot be sent over a OPTICAL calbe, because SPDIF isn't a kind of SIGNAL, its just a name Sony Phillips DIgital Format. What goes inside of this kind of cable are electric impulses. What goes into an Optical cable is light. That's the difference. If the link you mention states otherwise, the link is wrong...
     
  8. DJ_ViRuS

    DJ_ViRuS New Member

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    man you are (i don't know how to translate) laberst scheiße!!! (say shit???) joah...

    s/p-Dif means SONY/PHILLIPS DIGITAL INTERFACE THAT CAN BE TRANSFERED OVER KOAXIAL AND OPTICAL CABLES-..... is a difference to AES/EBU.... but nothing more...


    you're a newcomer
     
  9. Daniel Drummond

    Daniel Drummond New Member

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  10. DJ_ViRuS

    DJ_ViRuS New Member

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    but you can also tranfer dts, DD, sdds and others over a OPTICAL SP-DIF CABLE!!!
     
  11. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    hey, guys :)

    so, spdif vs toslink vs ac3 stuff... :)

    as far as I remember, the SPDIF/AES format currently supports only two-channel audio
    (there was an unofficial 'multichannel' update which wasn't yet widely accepted)

    there are two subformats: consumer (IEC-958) and professional AES/EBU (AES3-1992)
    at least audigy board can handle both types of inputs (I'm unsure if Live can handle AES/EBU)

    in order to transfer multichannel audio via SPDIF, different compression algorithms are used
    (such as DTS, DolbyDigital) however, the data is still transferred as '16 bit stereo'

    as for kX Driver, neither Live, nor Audigy currently support on-the-fly DolbyDigital encoding (compared to nForce chipset)
    Audigy supports Dolby Digital / AC-3 passthru

    as for 'TOSLINK' and 'Coaxial' -- both connections differ only on the 'media' layer

    /Eugene
     
  12. doctorj1024

    doctorj1024 New Member

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    already made it

    Hi Guys!

    i've already made it (ac3 -> my yamaha amp) with a sb live value card! it worked fine until i installed the kx drivers! sounds better with it, but ac3 is going to hell. what should i do? don't know how to route the ac3 directly to the spdif out. Please help! is it possible with the kx drivers??

    Greetz
     
  13. DeadMan2003

    DeadMan2003 New Member

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    I am still waiting for AC3 passthru on SBLive! cards (10k1) with KX drivers. I have been waiting for over a year now and still nothing. The people developing the KX drivers seem to have no interest in making this work for those who wish to have stable ASIO and AC3 passthru on SBLive! cards.

    Sigh...
     
  14. Starlord

    Starlord New Member

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    the Thing i know is i run THX Dolby Digital over Optical and it works fine, if the DVD Sounds are fine
    but to get AC3 or EAX Running correctly, wich are basedonto annother Decoding..#
    you must use the 6 CHannel connektings on the Back of the Soundcard...

    The Problem isnt the connekting, u can send the same Data over Optical but
    the most Recivers are based on Audio for Musik Decodings
    and AC3 and EAX are based for Computer Game Play Decoding, and an Reciver dont understood what
    the AC3 or EAX Sound would do, thats why you must put the encodet Sounds over 6 Channel Settings
    from the Soundcard to the Reciver, Thats something an Reciver can handle with, but AC3 or EAX over one Channel in different no knowing coding he dosent understood....
     
  15. Orestis

    Orestis New Member

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    First of all, let me say I have a SB live! Platinum with the DTT2500 Digital, hooked up via the mini DIN and the livedrive's SPDIF out.

    The thing about SPDIF, is that while it normally carries 2 channels, it can also carry multichannel info, if this info is encoded using a specific format (for example Dolby Digital). This info appears to be normal 2-channel data, but can be expanded (e.g. to 5.1), using an external amplifier.

    The problem I (and probably others) are facing, is that, both Creative's drivers and the kx drivers don't allow for AC3 data to be passed to the SPDIF output, thus effectively disabling the external AC3 decoders. In my case, this means I'm stuck with the normal speaker outputs, which means 4.1 audio at best.

    I think the SPDIF passthrough on 10k1 cards should receive a bit higher priority.
     
  16. Starlord

    Starlord New Member

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    hm hm the difference between kx and SBlive drivers
    are
    kx drivers are running when i insert an Orginal DVD
    but the SB Drivers, shut down the Digital out...

    and thats why i never would buy an Soundblaster again....
     
  17. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    AC-3 passthrtough is bein developed for version 3536, and you can sign up to be a beta-tester if you want - ie if there are bugs in the AC-3 passthrough, you can send the report in
     
  18. NATSat

    NATSat New Member

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    Creative has its own format comparably with Dolby digital.

    http://europe.creative.com/estore/product.asp?prod=512&page=6

    "Digital Out for 5.1 support (6-channel SPDIF Output to Creative digital speakers) "

    The technology must be very similar. Compressing for 6 Channel on the fly

    Perhaps could the algorithm be changed to DD?
     
  19. Drzony

    Drzony New Member

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    The situation is as follows AC-3 is a compression type that means it is 5.1 sound transferred over single coaxial cable.
    Now Creative "invented" their own way to transfer sound i.e. the digital out on SBLive 5.1/Audigy is not a standard mini-jack (if You look at normal stereo jack it has three parts separated by plastic those are left, right and ground) but it is a triple signal jack (if You look at Creative's speakers they have jack which consist of 4 parts those are front, rear ans LFE+Center). Creative cards when using digital out compress sound to 3 separate stereo PCM signals (and since stereo PCM travels through one cable since it is digital and not like normal stereo through two) and then speakers decode 3xPCM stereo to 5.1. To test this attach a mono jack to SB and connect it to Amplifier which will say stereo PCM. I have talked about it with Creative support a lot so I know what I'm talking about.

    All (or almost all) Dolby Digital Amlpifiers understand Dolby Digital 5.1 which means exactly AC-3, now Creative cards can only output AC-3 if it is in passthrough mode i.e. AC-3 is transferred to digital out UNCOMPRESSED. Now for games still 3xPCM is transferred to digital out. What we need to have one SPDIF/Optical cable from SB to Amplifier is AC-3 encoding that means capturing 5.1 channels and then compressing them to digital signal and transferring it through AC-3 passthrough.

    And that is what is
    "Digital Out for 5.1 support (6-channel SPDIF Output to Creative digital speakers) "
    it's just 3xPCM stereo

    Hope I've cleared up the situation
     
  20. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    the creative digital din is not a new encoding, all it is is sending 3 different s/pdif STEREO sources down a 9 core cable
     

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