Windows XP and SSD for C:

Discussion in 'Windows & Other OS Discussion & Support' started by Trusteft, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    1) Any specific warnings/recommendations for buying/using an SSD as the system drive of a Windows XP Pro (x32 version of the OS) system?
    2) Out of curiosity, I am not planning on doing it, would Windows 98SE work on it?


    Please no suggestions for not using XP etc. That choice is already made.
     
  2. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    108
    1) Don't. Alternatively, no, nothing specific; you'll get recommendations for multiple manufacturers.
    2) Probably but not as efficiently as a new OS
     
  3. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

    Joined:
    May 13, 2002
    Messages:
    38,537
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Far as i know even with the drivers available.. trim isn't a functional command in windows xp... vista barely has trim. I think you have to run the utility manually in xp...

    Newer SSDs like the samsung 840 or 850 have their own garbage collection system that can be handling that for the most part. Aside from that... works just fine.

    In fact with windows 9x, formating the primary partition with FAT32 to a maximum of 30gb, worked just fine and i run windows ME perfectly. HOWEVER being sata, this only appears to work on 9x with an intel chipset that handles the intel sata controller running in IDE mode and DMA Mode 4/5 maximum, which means that the drives typically don't do anything faster than 100-150MB/s read/write (if the controller can handle it). However considering how 9x works, things are simply insane in booting and load times.
     
  4. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Does the Samsung's 840+ series own system work independently of the OS? Or they require a driver for that? If they require a driver, is there even a XP (or older) driver for them?

    If I would install W98SE I would first create a partition for it, and install XP on the rest. That would be interesting.

    Yeah, I guess W98 with SSD would be pretty fun, almost like running off a ram disk I imagine.

    I am trying to reaech a decision this weekend, if I am going to order the parts for this small PC or not. With an D2550 or D550 and a AMD7410m and 4GB of RAM, I should have enough power to run everything that requires W98 and XP up to few years ago.

    Tempting.
     
  5. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Just to throw it in there - have you considered using Ubuntu? That should go like the clappers on there.
     
  6. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Why would I want to use Ubuntu if I want to use Windows XP for older Windows XP (and older) software?

    I was about 2 sec away from ordering the hardware and while I am going to order them anyway, I am still curious.
     
  7. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Damn it, I was ready to order it but I just noticed that instead of the D2550 it had the D525. Yeah the integrated gpu doesn't matter since the system has the amd 7410m, and the 0.04 CPU difference is too small, but...but...I don't know.
    I wish Shuttle would just sell their own systems directly to us.
     
  8. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    YES! I got very lucky, I found the right pc (right CPU), for 100 pounds cheaper!
    Placed the order! I will finally build my super PC! (D2550, 4GB DDR3, 250GB Samsung 840, dvdrw, radeon 7410m)
     
  9. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

    Joined:
    May 13, 2002
    Messages:
    38,537
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    138
    running windows 98se or 9x native (not on a virtual machine) on that cpu and it's chipset may prove to be pretty unpredictable or for the most part.. entirely unsupported.

    Like I said... in the testing I've done, basically made trying to install to anything more on the modern side pretty much unreliable/unpredictable or even a crash fest. I found sticking to an intel chipset/board is best in that 800 series chipsets, the 915 is extremely iffy is about as high as you can go before... the 945 and 975 and up fall apart quickly.

    Stay away from VIA.... and I've had very little to no reliable luck with AMD/Nvidia chipsets in 9x.
     
  10. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    108
    I figured it was being used for a media centre or some other small task - XP requires low spec by today's standards.
    Unless it's for someone without a machine or you require an old port (such as serial) I would have said a virtual machine, which pretty much guarantees compatibility.

    Have fun with it anyway.
     
  11. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I am not sure how SSDs work after being partitioned, especially if I do one small one (10GB?) and one large (the rest 240~) Is it going to harm the drive in the long run? I am going to have to format it to FAT32 for W98, IIRC, I don't know. I will probably not even try to install W98 on it and play it safe. From what I remember Windows XP had pretty good compatibility with older software as long as you were using the 32bit variety of XP.

    I have no idea what chipset it is, but I assume it is a Intel. Not sure I ever saw a non Intel one for these systems.
     
  12. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    No, just a regular (disconnected from the internet for the most part) gaming machine. It doesn't have newer ports like USB3.0, but it doesn't have old ones like serial ports either. A virtual machine is not as powerful as this machine, nor compatible enough.
    Thank you. I will, though I don't know how many days it will be before all the parts arrive. :)
     
  13. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Out of curiosity, what sort of things are not compatible/fast enough?
     
  14. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I don't have a ready list, but tons of 3D games from the late 90's for example will not run or run very poorly on a VPC.
     
  15. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

    Joined:
    May 13, 2002
    Messages:
    38,537
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    138
    formatting a ssd with multiple partitions and different partitions isn't in any way harmful... in fact formatting a ssd with fat32 might actually prolong the life of the drive due to the fact that it doesn't index anything and basically dumps data and has no redundancy of any type really.

    Like I said I was running windows 9x on an ssd with a 30gb formatted FAT32 partition (primary) and the thing was simply amazing in boot times and speeds and was stable as all hell. I think it's actually the only case in which a SSD was technically faster than the ram that was installed lol
     
    Trusteft likes this.
  16. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Thanks for clarifying. Though I haven't come across anything yet that is incompatible I'm interested to know what isn't or what struggles. I also don't play games on VMs so can't comment there.
     
  17. WxMan1

    WxMan1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    28
    WinXP support of SSD is notorious; your mobo needs to provide drivers. The drivers need to be loaded special at boot-time during install of the O/S.

    WRT to Win9x support of SSD: really? I'm bogmaskced that anybody would consider Win9x to be a viable option for computing with modern technology. Really?

    :confused:

    The memory manager of WinXP is light years ahead of Win9x; I'm running Win 2003 R2 because it's leaps and bounds ahead of WinXP. But then, Win2003 code base is WinXP 64-bit. AFAIC, Win2003 is a most fine pseudo operating-system, i.e., wannabe 'NIX. For standard workstation style-primary desktop O/S none of the atypical WinDoze garbage needs to be installed, enabled or configured. Is there an equivalent to services.msc in Win9x? Disable all the garbage. WinXP will support any software that ran on Win9x.

    The biggest prollem migrating WinXP to newer hardware will be device drivers. That was a huge prollem with Win9x, i.e., DLL hell and the stupid VxD; all sorts of various registry tweaks to ameliorate deficiencies in the Win9x memory manager. How does one secure the Win9x from hack? What Win9x hardware is unsupported by WinXP?

    Even if one can get Win9x to recognize an SSD at bood-time - good on you - why would one desire to format the system partition as FAT32? That's like saying cars cause too much pollution so lets ban them and rely on horse & carriage; I'm certain that'll work well in all 52 CONUS metrroplex regions. The benefits of NTFS can NOT be understated. The test of the robust difference betwixt NTFS and FAT32 is to pull the plug; Win9x improper system shutdown was usually a nightmare.

    There's no benefit to partitioning a SSD except for organizational purposes. When utilizing flash memory-technolgy, repeeated read/write to the same memory address repeatedly is deleterious to said flash-memory lifespan; many reports there are of flash drives melting due to sustained defrag.

    The embedded flash memory-controller scatters writes across the entire range of media addresses so as to mitigate that. There's no performance degradation due to flash-memory fragmentation whatsoever; flash-memory is wholly unlike performance issues pertinent to seek, track-to-track and angular velocity inherent to rotating disk platter.

    o_O
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  18. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

    Joined:
    May 13, 2002
    Messages:
    38,537
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    138
    so why would fat32 be a problem considering that reads/writes are almost instantaneous with it.... along with the fact that fat32 doesn't have any additional read/writes that ntfs does when it comes to the rebust system that was intended for standard drives to protect the data from the standard drives that were poor performers and were high risk to data loss, specially when it came to it's onboard cache, something that an SSD doesn't necessarily require.

    Picking up a used 2nd hand 32 or 64gb SSD for windows 9x is simply a great experience if you have old games and programs that work better on it.

    Like I said, I've a machine setup here currently for specifically retro-ish games and throwbacks, while I originally started with a p2-350mhz cpu... i'm not running windows 9x on a Sata I Intel 8xx series chipset with a Samsung 840 120gb ssd. My experience even with the intel 915 chipset has been pretty iffy.. but 3ghz p4 combined with 1GB of faster DDR2 ram running windows 9x is blazing fast. Add a Radeon 8500 64gb video card to the mix and it's about the best 9x supported solution you can manage.
     
  19. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I am still waiting for the RAM to arrive. Hopefully Monday.
    I haven't installed XP for many years (jumped successfully to Vista in 2008).
    If I boot with the XP disc, will it let me partition the drive? Then try to boot with a W98SE disc and install it to the new small partition. Then when(if) W98SE finishes, I will install XP.
    Problem is of course there are probably no drivers for w98SE, so I don't know even if it installs how useful any such installation would be for games.
     
  20. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    21,612
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    153
    The RAM arrived.
    I can't make W98SE or XP install.

    When I try W98se I get some messages that drivers can't be found and I am dropped at the command prompt.
    I said fine, it was a long shot anyway for W98 to have working drivers for it.

    I try to install XP. I get the the blue installation screen, various things loading (text) at the bottom and then I get the message that Windows is loading.
    A ms later I get a BSOD and no Windows lol.

    [​IMG]
    photo hosting

    I tried the Vista disc I have and it appears to be working though I didn't complete the installation. I did though partition the drive to one 20GB and one the rest of the 250GB.
    Then I tried again with the same results.

    No idea what that message BSOD is about, so I decided to check if I need to install any drivers (F6) during installation. I got them on a USB flash drive and...XP installation does not detect a....floppy drive.

    This is annoying.
     

Share This Page

visited